Russian invasion of Ukraine

bluesince76 said:
There's no way Putin will allow Ukraine to join NATO. He sees it in a very different light to how the west does. Every country that joins makes him and other old school Soviets feel more threatened and allows his rhetoric.

There is a very real risk that either NATO ends up at war with Russia or it allows a NATO country to be attacked and does nothing, at which point it's useless. We need to be finding solutions to this that everyone can claim as a victory, not risking escalation. We then find other ways to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine and other states which Russia can't claim are a security risk e.g. making them a member of the EU where the EU countries would need to protect them, but it's not seen as a military organisation.

Thankfully the likes of China are speaking in calming ways and are not currently siding with Russia, meaning they could still be key to brokering a deal. The alternative is too awful to consider.
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Putin needs a way out of this with dignity or it'll get messy. I think NATO should agree that Ukraine will never be a member in return for a complete russian withdrawal, and Ukraine being a buffer with EU membership possible at a later stage.
 
yankblue said:
Yeah, not to mention it seems like there's a sizable portion of the Russian army/general populace has no desire to fight Ukraine. I'd imagine they'd feel very differently if they were were 'attacked' by a western nation.
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Yep and currently, anti western sentiment is still strong and they’ll be blaming the west for the impact of the sanctions on them at the mo. It does need to be said that if NATO acts, then it is basically WW3 and he will escalate to horrifying consequences for everyone.

The situation in Ukraine is horrific in itself too absolutely and their defence may make it even worse in terms of the potential impacts and lengths Putin will go to. The more he does that though, the impacts of the sanctions will continue to bite and he won’t be able to keep the false narrative going at home forever when the military losses and the actual Ukrainian sentiment, particularly in the east, starts to come through. He also isn’t going to just be able to put in a puppet government due to that sentiment, he’s going to need to occupy it against what will be a constant resistance that will never stop, and all of that will need financing.

The best thing we can do is go further with the sanctions - target the entire of the political elite and high society, and at the same time go after him in the courts for war crimes. Not only does that hugely increase the pressure on those close to him, it also puts huge diplomatic pressure on those that are currently trying to stay neutral to act too so he becomes a full pariah.
 
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Paul1970 said:
A lot of bad blood from world war 2 coming out as the Ukraine army sided with Germany and commit a lot of atrocities in Russia . No excuse but Russia have long memories . Going fighters the Ukraine’s are .
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You’re disingenuous here.
 
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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Putin needs a way out of this with dignity or it'll get messy. I think NATO should agree that Ukraine will never be a member in return for a complete russian withdrawal, and Ukraine being a buffer with EU membership possible at a later stage.
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So you want to disband NATO to appease Putin? Did you have a few too many beers watching Peterborough this evening?
 
Paul1970 said:
A lot of bad blood from world war 2 coming out as the Ukraine army sided with Germany and commit a lot of atrocities in Russia . No excuse but Russia have long memories . Going fighters the Ukraine’s are .
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WAT.jpg

4.5 million Ukrainians fought with the Red Army against Nazi Germany.
 
jerseyblue said:
I can't imagine anyone thinking that is a reasonable or remotely rational reason to invade a sovereign nation...and if I gave you that impression then I ought to work on my writing. Putin not a rational actor, he clearly views himself as the grand savior of the Russian empire and means to redraw the borders to align with what he views as rightfully Russian territory or at the very least expand their sphere of influence ..its beyond mad and completely frightening. What I will say is, if you analyze and understand Putin as that person, this is EXACTLY the man he is, and exactly what he has been positioning Russia for for near two decades. NATO hasn't provoked it insofar as doing anything to make this happen, that is all on Russian/Putin's imperialist dreams. NATO is our only hope in making sure Russia goes no further, and is punished to the maximum extent that renders them a fully neutered (former) world power. The real questions to me at this point are how China comes down on this whole thing, do they help support Russia as these sanctions and isolation hurt them? And can Ukraine hold long enough to force Putin to the table in a weak enough position to leave the country mostly intact?

Not sure if anyone has read this, but very informative article here, worth a read.
www.politico.com

‘Yes, He Would’: Fiona Hill on Putin and Nukes

Putin is trying to take down the entire world order, the veteran Russia watcher said in an interview. But there are ways even ordinary Americans can fight back.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
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Yes that article has come up, sadly a couple of idiots actually managed to read it and thought it stated that Putin invaded because of NATO (fuck knows how as you’re rightly aware it states the opposite)
 
news.sky.com

Ukraine invasion: Russia tells people in Kyiv to leave their homes ahead of strikes on key intelligence targets

Moscow has issued the warning as a US official said Vladimir Putin is likely "regrouping, rethinking, re-evaluating" as his forces struggle to take control of the Ukrainian capital.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

errr no coz

1/ I am not getting you off war crimes charges ya ****
2/ I am going to remain here and make your troops pay in blood for every metre of ground

Not hard to see what they are trying to do
 
Out of interest.

If NATO did decide to attack Russia in response. Which countries would be on Russias side ?
 
SWP's back said:
Yes, livestreams of them landing and videos from about two dozen different angles.
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just go to this app - these people save footage that is accredited for use in war crimes trials

www.eyewitness.global

eyeWitness to Atrocities

We believe in a simple vision: A world where those who commit the worst international crimes are held responsible for their actions. We use an innovative approach, combining law and technology, to make this a reality.
www.eyewitness.global www.eyewitness.global
 
Thick twat live streaming invasion plans - tonight every agency with any interest in this knows the aims and can plan accordingly

 
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