Russian invasion of Ukraine

r.soleofsalford said:
What an absolute crock of shit.

You`ll be telling us next the Berlin wall was built by the Soviet Bloc to stop West Germans from getting in.
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It is your right of course to dismiss the article as crock of shit. I posted it to bring some balance to a very one sided debate.

The Berlin Wall was political symbolism, but you knew that.
 
urban genie said:
As leftie as I am and as much as I have a go about America meddling in other countries and being human right abusers, suporters of governments that commit murder and unwarranted death, clandestine shitstirrers toward legitimate governments etc.

On this one even I have to say Putin is the cause, and a socialist, let's end capitalism and bring socialism to the US has no bearing, though should still be a long term goal for america.

An I am no fool to not know that the like of the Azov brigade are nowt more than nazi cunts and Ukraine should never have allowed them to part of their army and once this is over be disbanded and their leadership imprisoned, something the mad **** is using as an excuse, however it is pointless having these usual left wing theorising on what can be done or what to do next. At present the lefts full focus should be on supproting a ceasefire and Russians and Ukrainians not dying unecessaraly

Nato ain't gonna disband any time soon, waffling on about it won't change the present death toll, that is a future and continued arguement for another day

What's needed now from the left is not debate but a commitment to help Ukraine with the struggle and and in the aftermath making sure those right wing influences that have been in powerfull positions don't have any power in a future Independant Ukraine while also opposing the conservative Russian state and it's **** of a leader.

Socialism/communism doesn't have a pacifist nature and the left have never shied away from fighting or going to / supporting war when necessary.

I am not pro NATO expansionism or even why it should still exist over what we should really have (a UN organised mulitinational force that actually works) bit in this NATO is a side story towards Putins belief in the russian empires pre 1917 territorial claims
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Can you imagine what Putin would get up to without NATO
 
bluethrunthru said:
The clowns in charge here left EU sanctions laws and left us with a weaker system so for all his bluster Johnsons Brexit ridden Circus has fucked up again

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This is nonsense. A Bill giving emergency powers can go thru in a week.
 
Rascal said:
It is your right of course to dismiss the article as crock of shit. I posted it to bring some balance to a very one sided debate.

The Berlin Wall was political symbolism, but you knew that.
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Maybe it’s one sided because there is only one side to take.

Never since Hitler has the world seen such a clear example of right and wrong here.
 
Rascal said:
Alaska/Russia , Norway/ Russia both in the frozen wastelands. were the only borders where the founding members of NATO/Russia interjected. Alaska is separated from Russia by the Bering sea, Norway land border with Russia is tiny.

Using Russia and USSR is disengenous, the USSR no longer exists, the Warsaw Pact has gone. The Warsaw Pact bordered NATO of course, but since its disintegration many Warsaw Pact countries are now NATO countries.

Putin may be an Imperialist who wants to restore the former influence of Russia over its former satellite states, but it has shown no sign at all of the expansionism of NATO.

Lenin referred to Imperialism as the highest stage of Capitalism and NATO is being used to promote Capitalism and as we have seen in this thread demonise the left. It is eradication of left wing thinking on a mass scale.

Putin though is not a left wing leader, he is an authoritarian Nationalist and I have said before he is dangerous and should be stopped. However NATO is not the cuddly benign organisation its made out to be. This is not as black and white as its being made out. The propaganda is not one sided. FFS, we had Nadine Dorries praising the BBC yesterday and she wanted to defund it last week.

Maybe as @swpsback says i should educate myself on twitter
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It’s convenient for you to ignore the borders of the former USSR so you don’t have to count the Turkey border.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
www.theguardian.com

We must confront Russian propaganda – even when it comes from those we respect | George Monbiot

The grim truth is that for years, a small part of the ‘anti-imperialist’ left has been recycling Putin’s falsehoods, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
“This puts me in a difficult place. Among the worst disseminators of Kremlin propaganda in the UK are people with whom I have, in the past, shared platforms and made alliances. The grim truth is that, for years, a segment of the “anti-imperialist” left has been recycling and amplifying Putin’s falsehoods.”

Read here to see why the “NATO expansion” is flimsy and doesn’t wash…


And here…


Look at these quotes from Putin:

“The collapse of the Soviet empire was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century”, 2005
(Although not from a Communism point-of-view since he also once said “communism is a blind alley, far away from the mainstream of civilisation" - which I do agree with.)

“The cause of Peter the Great is still alive” (2019)
(Peter the Great founded the Russian Empire and was the man who had the biggest aims for a greatest Russian expanse possible. Putin has a statue of Peter the Great on his desk.)

He’s said that the Bolsheviks robbed Russia of Russian lands when they relinquished Ukraine. He doesn’t recognise the sovereignty of Ukraine at all.

Look at the reasoning he’s giving for it back in Russia:
“we need to rid the world of the drug-taking neo-nazis who are using children as human shields”. He’s not even mentioned NATO expansion to his people!

Watch this week’s Panorama.
www.bbc.co.uk

BBC One - Panorama, Putin’s War in Ukraine

Panorama asks what lies behind Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Read up on Russian Troll Factories:


And stop falling for their bollocks.
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Well worth the effort mate.
 
SWP's back said:
I know right. We had some posters on here quoting that and trying to take the piss out of western intelligence services because of it. And now those people are posting videos of Russel fucking Brand. No shame.
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Probably dipper fans in disguise. It’s a wonder they haven’t claimed some sort of victory.

#you will never nuke alone

It does make you wonder just what the fuck people are watching/listening. No wonder MSM is rampant. Geobbles would not have achieved so much brainwashing tho in fairness he didn’t have Facebook/Twitter.
 
r.soleofsalford said:
Can you imagine what Putin would get up to without NATO
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Can you imagine what no one wpuld get up to if the Warsaw Pact and Nato had been merged into a UN force mandated by the securoty council not cpuntries with vested interests with China, Pakistan, India and the African, South American and otger Asian nations also members.

One third of the globe being an agreed armed force while other nations go it alone is also not good for global peace
 
Rascal said:
Berlin Wall was political symbolism
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Nothing more than symbolism?

At the Berlin Wall alone, at least 140 people were killed or died in other ways directly connected to the GDR border regime between 1961 and 1989, including 100 people who were shot, accidentally killed, or killed themselves when they were caught trying to make it over the Wall

Victims of the Wall - Berlin.de

www.berlin.de www.berlin.de
 
Very little talk this morning of the nuclear power plant fire/attack.

I thought that would be the main story on all outlets, but it seems a side note, woth talk revolving around opinions on Putin and upcoming summits.

Through the nigbt it felt like the thing was a pretty big threat of a huge catastrophe
 
Rascal said:
It is amazing that counter narratives are so easily dismissed.

Have you ever wondered why?
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It could be because Putin himself made a long speech justifying the invasion as a necessary means to unify the Slavic peoples, and demonising the Ukrainian democratically elected government as "drug addicts and degenerates".

He's openly a fascist, he's not even pretending otherwise.
 
Rascal said:
It is your right of course to dismiss the article as crock of shit. I posted it to bring some balance to a very one sided debate.

The Berlin Wall was political symbolism, but you knew that.
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For a political symbol there were a lot of people (100,000 between 1961 and 1988) died trying to get under, over or though it. Any idea how many died trying to get into East Berlin.
 
Donated some money last night to that new fund set up, can't really afford much.

However, having seen the footage of Germans welcoming women and children at Berlin train station, it brought a tear to my eye.

Magnificent and tragic in every way.

Well done to Germany, Poland and every other country stepping up to take these poor families in.

Reminds me humanity is still out there.
 
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