Russian invasion of Ukraine

flook said:
The (relative) relaxation of the regime over the last 30 years makes this possible, the effect of the economic sanctions makes this (I like to believe) probable
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I hope so mate, i understand the brainwashing/propaganda issue in Russia but if the people don't rise up then their country will turn to shit
 
Vic said:
Getting exemption as a CO is a bit different from being conscripted into an army and then refusing an order (even if you think the order is a war crime).
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R v Smith. Superior orders are no defence.
 
bluealf said:
So we keep standing by while he annihilates Ukraine and then what, start trading with Russia again next year?

If it leads to an escalated war then so be it, you can not let dictators do this, if nuclear weapons existed in 1939 would the world have sat ideally by while Hitler killed every fucking Jew he could get his hands on?

There isn't a lot of difference right about now, he is murdering innocent people while we watch on the news, trembling he may or may not press the button.

Will we still be trembling when he rolls into Finland, Georgia and whichever other country he fancies taking back into Russian hands.
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Alf I do understand you are asking questions here.
The slaughter of one Ukrainian is one too many. However Putin has us all by the balls atm although he’s playing a very dangerous game of who blinks first with the West. Thankfully we are not playing.

I would like to thank us ordinary folk will ask serious questions if we just revert to normal trading if/when this war ends.

i understand you mentioning 1939 and Hitler but as you say we did not have nuclear capability then. Revisionist history does not determine future outcomes.

the suffering is abhorrent but stepping in now would make the present situation look like a tea party.
Until he does go to Finland or Georgia it’s just a theory at present and I’m not sure they’d have the financial means for a long while.
 
bluealf said:
I guess I am and I mean the rest of the real world bar the usual fucks that think like Putin.

Putin gets away with this then it will be China have a little nibble at Taiwan or whatever they fancy in that region.

North Korea may well feel emboldened enough to make their country whole again.

As previously said in your thoughts he can just threaten the use of his nukes and reclaim whatever he wants, just in case he uses them, well as long as it isn't NATO property, then nukes will be legit again.
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Putin hasn’t got away with this. Even if manages to occupy Ukraine he’s lost because he’s managed to isolate his country, trashed the economy and is well on the way to making millions of the population destitute.

Sounds like extreme Brexit ;-)
 
bluealf said:
I guess I am and I mean the rest of the real world bar the usual fucks that think like Putin.

Putin gets away with this then it will be China have a little nibble at Taiwan or whatever they fancy in that region.

North Korea may well feel emboldened enough to make their country whole again.

As previously said in your thoughts he can just threaten the use of his nukes and reclaim whatever he wants, just in case he uses them, well as long as it isn't NATO property, then nukes will be legit again.
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I don't think North Korea will do that. Sure they posture, but NK is a gangster state who has only developed nuclear weapons to safeguard the Kim dynasty and the ruling elite.

Without them they would be in greater danger of being toppled by an invasion of the south or foreign intervention.

Demographics don't make sense either, they can't occupy a country of 50 million when their own population is half that size. Not in the modern world.
 
KS55 said:
Last two not economic. Nat debt increased by huge US loan. 1951 gov forced to resign when chancellor Cripps could not balance the budget. That is why the Tories got 13 years and a rep for economic competence (prob not deserved, just by contrast) and lab the opposite.
None of this is really relevant to the point about capitalism, so will leave it at that so as not to derail the thread.
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Well, if you exclude a decent home to live in, and free health care as the sort of economic "zilch" that doesn't lift people out of poverty, fair enough.

I'm not sure where the nonsense comes from that the Labour government was forced to resign in 1951. But not surprised that Cripps couldn't balance the budget in 1951 - he'd resigned because of ill health in 1950.

(Are there some Russian bots rewriting Labour history?)
 
Fode N The Hole said:
I don't think North Korea will do that. Sure they posture, but NK is a gangster state who has only developed nuclear weapons to safeguard the Kim dynasty and the ruling elite.

Without them they would be in greater danger of being toppled by an invasion of the south or foreign intervention.

Demographics don't make sense either, they can't occupy a country of 50 million when their own population is half that size. Not in the modern world.
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Indeed I guess the crucial bit was 'may well'
 
I'm With Stupid said:
We sat by idly for a lot longer than this during WW2. March 1938 was when Germany annexed Austria. Even after this, we signed a deal agreeing that Germany can keep an area of Czechoslovakia to prevent further violence. In the meantime, Italy invaded Albania. It wasn't until September 1939 that we finally declared war on them.

Of course you could argue that technically we've been appeasing Putin for far longer with Georgia and Crimea.
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And you need to add on the 8 months of the phoney war to that too, because of course Britain and France didn’t start significantly fighting at the formal declaration of war in September 1939.
 
bluealf said:
IT is moving beyond a NATO country, that was kind of my point.

It shouldn't matter now that Ukraine isn't a NATO country, we can't just keep standing by wringing our hands as their country is bombed to pieces and innocent people keep losing their lives.
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Whilst heartbreaking to watch alf, if NATO gets involved militarily there would be nothing left of Ukraine pretty much immediately.

Closely followed by much of the Western world.
 
So the piece of shit is sat in his office in the Kremlin.

Time to give Jack Bauer a call.
 
flook said:
OK so only capitalism uses resources, thanks for clearing that up. Lets just check that shall we

Largest user of coal - China https://www.iea.org/reports/coal-information-overview/consumption

Largest user of oil - USA followed by China https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/oil-consumption-by-country

Highest percentage of renewable energy - Germany, then UK, in fact the top 10 are all capitalist pigs err countries https://www.smart-energy.com/renewa...h-the-highest-proportion-of-renewable-energy/

You didn't try and defend your "There are no bad guys" comment I see
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AND capitalism will find the money to develop alternative sources of energy. For example, an experimental nuclear fission plant, one third operational size is currently being built in uk. Rolls Royce have developed the idea of small nuclear plants which would be much cheaper than those massive plants. Think gov has allocated funds to build a trial site. We have also developed non fossil fuel truck engines. This is capitalism in action to improve the lot of man, as it has done for 300 years. Necessity is the mother of invention. I am optimistic re future of global emissions.
 
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