crypto interest

grunge said:
General Crypto question. got an invite to Pi Network, anyone heard of it and had a try? seems shadey as hell to me when I took a look, basically a crypto forcet where doing a simple action gets you "pi". the simple action is open app and click a button every 24 hours.

app shows adverts and seems to access every bit of data the phone has on you which makes me think this is just Cambridge analytica 2.0.
Click to expand...

My very basic understanding of it is that it's a first crypto coin that is built to mine from mobiles. Whether it's genuine or a trick to access the data on your phone who knows. Only time will tell. I'd be cautious. I'm not into mining anyway but granting anyone access to your mobile given how you probably have banking apps, Facebook and, shit the password to your Bluemoon account, is probably not wise.
 
Wafty Cranker said:
I don’t expect similar gains but I think there is a very strong chance ETH & BTC continue to outperform the markets for next few years.

I agree there is an element of gambling, but it could be compared to going into a casino and putting your money on black, if it doesn’t come in you lose, but if it does come in you 10x you stake.
Obviously it’s not that straight forward but hopefully you get my point in the risk & upside vs downside.

By some distance my best investments have been in cryptocurrency. For the reasons you mentioned though only a small allocation of my capital is in it. It’s not much fun watching its value free fall before your eyes.
Click to expand...

It's no more gambling that buying and selling shares. You research a company, study the market and punt on who you think will grow. It's exactly the same with crypto, just the market is more volatile.
 
metalblue said:
Why does it make sense to measure your p&l in the fiat currencies? Unless you see crypto as just another currency I suppose…but then it’s whole raison d’être is to be the only currency.

I spent some time as a TA, I get the self fulfilling prophecy narrative, it’s as old as the “art” of being a TA. When you look at a price chart do you actually know what you are really looking at? It took me a few years to figure this out, I was too busy thinking I could read markets by drawing a few lines here and there!! Haha

Value is an interesting question, you got me thinking about this for the first time. So let me give you my two pennies worth. I see the value of crypto as a concept not so much the execution, the idea of money without borders is fantastic. The problem as I see it is the cost of production, what people would call the gate price. It is expensive to produce a bit coin that they need a high value to make them worth producing (around $10k each but I think the average is nearer $20k). If Bitcoin dropped below $10k for a sustained period they would stop being “mined”, below $20k you’d probably see less “miners” making the average of the remaining “miners” closer to $10k. But that’s not the value of Bitcoin, it doesn’t have a value beyond the problem it solves (cost of transferring and exchanging money) however I see a massive disconnect between this value and the cost to produce. So then a fraction of a coin becomes the value store, in that case you have to go to the smaller denomination of both BTC and say USD, so that gets me to 0.000001BTC being worth 0.01USD or 1BTC = 1 million cents or $10,000, maybe add another what $200? for the costs of transferring money across borders. It’s got some very symmetrical structural problems really hasn’t it? So I’ll be a bit generous and say anything above $11-12k is overvalued to me. However you still have to solve the problem of volatility before bitcoin can realise it’s potential.

Trading is a zero sum game mate. Money doesn’t just magically appear. For every $1 you make one or more people have to provide that $1 to the market. The only people that always win are the trading platforms because they take commission on both sides. The number of people who win or lose won’t be balanced, just the value, but that’s largely irrelevant if you’re on the wrong side of a trade.

If you’re making good money in this stuff then I’m pleased for you. Keep an eye on your profits, always ask yourself would I buy it here if I wasn’t already long - and if the answer is no, sell and buy back when you say yes. May the trading gods be on your side
Click to expand...

Ha ha, I’ve dabbled in TA. It can be easy to get carried away! Nip on to TradingView and everyone has the latest system. I still use TA to some degree and think it has its place.

Do you own any crypto at all? Or you totally bearish and on it?
 
Wafty Cranker said:
Ha ha, I’ve dabbled in TA. It can be easy to get carried away! Nip on to TradingView and everyone has the latest system. I still use TA to some degree and think it has its place.

Do you own any crypto at all? Or you totally bearish and on it?
Click to expand...

I’m long term bearish for fundamental reasons but calling this market? Forget it, I’m not that close to it and the volatility is frightening. I did look at trying a long vol play a while back but couldn’t get the trade on at anything that made sense.
 
bugsyblue said:
It's no more gambling that buying and selling shares. You research a company, study the market and punt on who you think will grow. It's exactly the same with crypto, just the market is more volatile.
Click to expand...
Crypto is obviously far more risky than buying shares. It’s a much bigger gamble vs shares imo, hence the rewards are far greater too. I sleep easier at night with the majority of my money in traditional investments.

I’d have sleepless nights if it was all in crypto!
 
bugsyblue said:
It's no more gambling that buying and selling shares. You research a company, study the market and punt on who you think will grow. It's exactly the same with crypto, just the market is more volatile.
Click to expand...

You missed the core underlying difference where when you buy shares you are buying a stake in a company that makes (or intends to make) money. And the money it makes will eventually get paid out to the shareholders giving an underlying rationale for the investment. You can research the companies and take a view on how good they will be at making money and you can get ahead of the market.

Crypto has no such underlying fundamental. The only money being made is from early investors selling out to later investors at a higher price. Its a textbook bubble. The best you can say is that long term it will have a stable value - but how true is that when the only reason people seem to get involved is to speculate that more will follow and the price will go up and they will be able to exit with a profit.
 
Wafty Cranker said:
Crypto is obviously far more risky than buying shares. It’s a much bigger gamble vs shares imo, hence the rewards are far greater too. I sleep easier at night with the majority of my money in traditional investments.

I’d have sleepless nights if it was all in crypto!
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I only spend on crypto what I can afford to lose. For me, the volatility is an asset. I'm not naive enough to think I won't get stung but I do my research, I follow the market, and I've reap gains and made loses. I actually only bought into crypto about 4 months ago and until the last couple of weeks I haven't seen any profit but I bought hastily, before I knew what I know now, and I bought at an all-time high. That's my own fault. For me though crypto isn't going to die overnight, certain coins will (eventually) but not crypto.
 
Gaudion M said:
You missed the core underlying difference where when you buy shares you are buying a stake in a company that makes (or intends to make) money. And the money it makes will eventually get paid out to the shareholders giving an underlying rationale for the investment. You can research the companies and take a view on how good they will be at making money and you can get ahead of the market.

Crypto has no such underlying fundamental. The only money being made is from early investors selling out to later investors at a higher price. Its a textbook bubble. The best you can say is that long term it will have a stable value - but how true is that when the only reason people seem to get involved is to speculate that more will follow and the price will go up and they will be able to exit with a profit.
Click to expand...

Sure, I take your point but you can invest in crypto companies making the coins if you wish. Or even the exchanges like Coinbase. In simple terms, with crypto you are investing in the "product" of these companies. Also with shares, not everyone invests for long-term dividend payments, some invest for the short or medium and that's usually because they predict sizeable growth. Buy low, sell high. Same principle with crypto.

A Ponzi scheme, which you seem to be insinuating it is, involves fraud where there's no tangible asset. That is NOT the case with all crypto coins (it has happened though). Doge coin, for example, which is a joke coin, but it is OPENLY a joke coin. People are investing for fun and some, yes, are naively investing because they want to make money from it. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole because that to me is 100% gambling. In the case of Doge the rise is absolutely linked to a "bubble" scenario. However, if you take Cardano (Ada), which is one of the most digitally enhanced crypto coins, and fairly eco, is launching smart contracts this month - that is absolutely a coin will technological value.

And to disprove your point about it being solely a bubble, why would google invest in Hashgraph if that was the case?

cointelegraph.com

Google Partnership With Hedera Hashgraph Can Generate $1.9B by 2024

Cointelegraph talks to Hedera Hashgraph CEO about the potential of the company and how their governance model triumphs Libra
cointelegraph.com cointelegraph.com

Someone else described is as a gold rush earlier, that's more how I see it. You might strike gold but most will just find dirt.
 
Twitter rumoured to be instigating bitcoin tipping on every tweet.
Millions of more users, if that happens.
 
Gaudion M said:
You missed the core underlying difference where when you buy shares you are buying a stake in a company that makes (or intends to make) money. And the money it makes will eventually get paid out to the shareholders giving an underlying rationale for the investment. You can research the companies and take a view on how good they will be at making money and you can get ahead of the market.

Crypto has no such underlying fundamental. The only money being made is from early investors selling out to later investors at a higher price. Its a textbook bubble. The best you can say is that long term it will have a stable value - but how true is that when the only reason people seem to get involved is to speculate that more will follow and the price will go up and they will be able to exit with a profit.
Click to expand...
https://uniris.io/
https://archethic.net/
You won’t be saying that when the whole internet is running on this!
 
Gaudion M said:
What are you suggesting - that I jump in early and sell for a big profit down the line?
Click to expand...
That’s how investing works. But what I’m saying is company’s like that which have patented technology, designed in universities, and have the technology to change the way the internet currently works by building on top of cryptography means you’re chatting nonsense, the crypto coin IS the share. It’s just that MOST of the crypto coins are nothing more than Ponzi schemes, and I include BitCoin in that, but if you open your eyes to what is being built out there there, there is massive investment opportunity.

Edit: Another company is VeChain, BMW are signed up to it, so are LVMH, for supply chain and forgeries, amongst other things, the creator of VeChain is ex LVMH CTO too.

Uniris doing the biometric security on chain for the Rugby World Cup 2023 and Paris Olympics in 2024 as well.
 
Last edited:
bluesteel said:
That’s how investing works. But what I’m saying is company’s like that which have patented technology, designed in universities, and have the technology to change the way the internet currently works by building on top of cryptography means you’re chatting nonsense, the crypto coin IS the share. It’s just that MOST of the crypto coins are nothing more than Ponzi schemes, and I include BitCoin in that, but if you open your eyes to what is being built out there there, there is massive investment opportunity.

Edit: Another company is VeChain, BMW are signed up to it, so are LVMH, for supply chain and forgeries, amongst other things, the creator of VeChain is ex LVMH CTO too.

Uniris doing the biometric security on chain for the Rugby World Cup 2023 and Paris Olympics in 2024 as well.
Click to expand...
You need to separate the technology and the asset.

The technology is genuinely good for some of these coins and big financial firms are all over this. Others have big issues, like the energy consumption for Bitcoin and some are just copy paste and offer nothing.

But holding a coin that is supported by good technology does not mean you have any stake in the technology. That's like saying i put my money in a bank and therefore i own a share of the IT system in the Bank. All you own is the cryptocoin and they all work like a Ponzi where early investor profit from selling on to later investors. All the other guff you posted re who is behind it and who is alleged to be using it is just noise generated to lure in more investors.
 
Gaudion M said:
You need to separate the technology and the asset.

The technology is genuinely good for some of these coins and big financial firms are all over this. Others have big issues, like the energy consumption for Bitcoin and some are just copy paste and offer nothing.

But holding a coin that is supported by good technology does not mean you have any stake in the technology. That's like saying i put my money in a bank and therefore i own a share of the IT system in the Bank. All you own is the cryptocoin and they all work like a Ponzi where early investor profit from selling on to later investors. All the other guff you posted re who is behind it and who is alleged to be using it is just noise generated to lure in more investors.
Click to expand...
Energy consumption is true, and is in use for a few coins because they use something called proof of work. But none of the new designs use this.

I hold Uniris coin, it was built by the Archetic Foundation, Arthetic hold the patents, those patents are being transferred to Uniris once the community is established and governed, holding coins gives me voting rights as a member of that community. I can buy shares in Apple and I have less stake in the technology.

Below is part of a post I posted elsewhere if you can be arsed reading.

"This is part of what they have patented, your finger is read by a reader they have in development, this reads your finger print, your veins using ultrasound and infrared. The tech isn't reliant on this and a Yubikey or simple username and password CAN still be used, or used with less privileges. Don't get worried, this isn't all your personal data, there is no link to your name, address etc. This is technology to say you are unique and the PERSON you claim to be, say goodbye to usernames and passwords, say goodbye to 2FA, say goodbye to to phishing attack and key loggers.

...

Lets take reddit for example. It's hosted on a web server, somewhere (probably in one of Google's, Amazon's or Microsoft's datacentres), as are all websites, this is how the internet works, currently. Now lets say you have an ArchEthic storage node, you are now hosting websites, if reddit migrated to ArchEthic then you're hosting reddit, and getting paid for it in crypto. With Dweb (Decentralised Websites) websites are built on top of Uniris and that website is cryptographically protected and replicated. If you are based in Peru, and someone close to you browses reddit they come to your storage node, less network latency (as it's closer) therefore faster access, you profit from unused storage, unparalleled security.

Now think of this for Dmail, Dstorage, the list is endless. This is about taking your files (think Dropbox, iCloud, OneDrive) and emails out of a centralised insecure place, and ultimately paying the people who have spare storage (think mining for everyone with spare storage on their PC/Laptop/Mobile), and nobody can access your data but you. Even courts couldn't force access as it's decentralised and encrypted.

This technology will distribute wealth, otherwise going to huge corporations, to the people and give everyone a faster and more secure experience."

Email, for example, is 1000 times greener than Google or Microsoft according to the nerds who built it. This whole concept is called Web 3.0 and is what we're going to be doing in the future. 23 years in IT and 8 as a consultant tells me that.

What is key here is that if you want secure storage, or secure email, or secure social media etc etc you'll be paying for it in crypto coins, a bit more than a ponzi scheme!

Anyway, as you were :)
 
What’s everyone’s top tips for 2022 then? Personally thinking of taking a punt on a couple of Metaverse coins
 
bugsyblue said:
What’s everyone’s top tips for 2022 then? Personally thinking of taking a punt on a couple of Metaverse coins
Click to expand...

I’m lazy and haven’t done that much research, but YGG (Yield Guild Games) might be worth a bit more looking into I think. Seems in a good position to benefit from NFT’s as well as gamers and the Metaverse.
 
Bitcoin seems to be back up and running after the 'crash'. Being predicted it'll reach an ATH or even $100k later this year.

Any projects worth looking at?
 
Otamendi's Beard said:
Bitcoin seems to be back up and running after the 'crash'. Being predicted it'll reach an ATH or even $100k later this year.

Any projects worth looking at?
Click to expand...

It’s a bit early in the price action to be getting bullish!! And for completeness some have predicted $100k others $10k. It’s hard to really get a bearing on why they predict what they predict.

For me headwinds include inflation and increased regulatory oversight. Energy costs are probably seen as friendly by the coin community (assuming they understand the correlation between gate price and value) - my best guess is $31.750 to mine a coin currently - no one with a brain will “mine” beneath that average - so, in theory, might act as a floor price - however supply demand dynamics are complicated when there is no tangible product but rather a value store. And, of course, energy cost increases are naturally inflationary and that acts as a continuing headwind to prices.

Hmmmmm, tricky. If I had to back a dog in this fight I’d say it’ll likely be a bit range bound and just get long volatility - but if you can play the noise there is cash to be made even in range bound markets. But I don’t need to back a dog here, so for my risk/reward comfort zone there are better investments out there.

Good luck to all that invest, no matter what your poison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top