US Politics Thread

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55yr old teenager said:
Didn't see that. Abortions should never be used as a form of contraception. That is morally so wrong. I would have to question why somebody with a modicum of Intelligence would even suggest that is acceptable.
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What abortion isn’t a form of contraception?

“Morally wrong” says you. Others might and do feel differently.
 
Bigga said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but for the right wing thinking "a broken clock is correct twice a day" applies in some cases. VERY very few, mind.
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Perhaps.
Bigga said:
As for Black issues, like every other issue, there's blurring. The only thing I agree with is that the Dem party don't serve the Black cause very well with its "well meaning" intentions offering platitudes than actual policy.
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You required of women a level of self responsibility. I.e. You argued that women having sex should take responsibility for their actions, seeing as their are 20 different ways to prevent pregnancy under conditions of consent.

Should the same 'take responsibility' not apply to black people when it comes to interactions with cops?

You cant be all for taking responsibility when it comes to women and sex, but not taking responsibility when it comes to police interaction. Seeing as over 95% of police interaction with blacks people that turned deadly almost always included a failure to comply with directives from the law enforcement officer.

You can't ask women to take responsibility on one issue, while requiring no such from black men.

I mean you can do whatever you want, but that struck me as odd!


Bigga said:
As a whole, though, you're pretty much wrong for me, but that's fine.
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Fair enough. I generally feel the same way about your views on most issues.
 
Dax777 said:
The rest of the first world disagrees with what exactly?

For the record, Overturning Roe v. Wade did not ban abortion.

And you are right, the ruling was about the abuse of power. The 5 Justices concluded that 9 Justices in 1972 overstepped their Judicial powers by creating a law they had no business creating. I agree with them. And here is the kicker. Almost no one disagrees with them. Not even the dissenting Justices. Such laws should have been made by a legislature elected by the people. Not 9 unelected men.

As you put it, like other 'First World nations', the U.S. should reach it's pro-abortion stance like everyone else. At the ballot!
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What exactly is the law that Roe v Wade made?

None. Roe v Wade was an interpretation of the Constitution. The court doesn’t make laws — its interpretations of the Constitution have effects on laws. Dobbs suggests that interpretation was incorrect, because there is no direct reference in the Constitution (which is Federal) to abortion; hence, the States decide the law for themselves.

However, as you already know, it contradicts the principle of stare decisis, which effectively means any and all interpretations of the Constitution by previous courts going back to its founding are now up for potential revision by this court. There are very, very specific reasons as to why stare decisis matters and when and how it can be circumvented, none of which nearly ever apply in any case in which the removal of a right is at issue vs. the providing of additional rights.

For about the 27th time, that’s the MOST important thing here, by far. This isn’t even political. No American of any political stripe should want this. The fucking Brennan court weakened SD too. That you don’t give a fuck even while knowing this because you’d rather “own the libs” is just repugnant.
 
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Alan Harper's Tash said:
Ok mate. It’s not changed anything. Women are grumpy for no reason. They’re probably on their period or something.

Same sex marriage will be next.

Its ok though. You’re making your country “better”.
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This is a Straw man. But anyway, the exchange was a pleasure.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Who makes you the moral arbiter of what a woman does and what qualifications do you have?
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What qualifications are looking for? I'm a retired nurse. I am female. I have never been in the awful situation of having to have an abortion. I'm sure for 99% of women it's a heart breaking decision for them, which some spend a lifetime regretting, but they did what they thought to the correct thing to do at that time In their life. I have every sympathy with them having had friends go through this and seen the emotional turmoil and toll it takes on them. I am nobodies moral arbitrator. But I do disagree with women who do to some degree use abortion as a form of contraception.
 
Bigga said:
So what is the point in discussing your point outside a 'Roe vs Wade' issue?
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It’s not an outside Roe v Wade issue. But if you only use USA you get a false picture.

It is like using only strict v Lax gun states to discuss correlation between guns and violence, when using countries with no guns makes the point more clearly.

Republicans cut funding for contraceptive treatment in a country with expensive private medicine and abortions go up.

Abortion should be on demand rather than having to jump through unnecessary hoops (e. g. Listening to heartbeat) to satisfy the religious right.
 
55yr old teenager said:
What qualifications are looking for? I'm a retired nurse. I am female. I have never been in the awful situation of having to have an abortion. I'm sure for 99% of women it's a heart breaking decision for them, which some spend a lifetime regretting, but they did what they thought to the correct thing to do at that time In their life. I have every sympathy with them having had friends go through this and seen the emotional turmoil and toll it takes on them. I am nobodies moral arbitrator. But I do disagree with women who do to some degree use abortion as a form of contraception.
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Life happens. If someone wants to have multiple abortions and are fine with that, why would your morals matter to that person?

Surely you would want the woman in the position to be able to have an abortion should she want one?
 
idahoblues said:
Funnily enough what about inter racial marriage?
I wonder where Roberts stands on that
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You mean Thomas?
FogBlueInSanFran said:
What exactly is the law that Roe v Wade made?
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That there was an implied right to abortion in the constitution. And thus, any State that attempted to restrict abortion had to have a compelling state reason for doing so.

FogBlueInSanFran said:
None. Roe v Wade was an interpretation of the Constitution. Dobbs suggests that interpretation was incorrect, because there is no direct reference in the Constitution (which is Federal) to abortion; hence, the States decide the law for themselves.

Hopefully this simple explanation helps you.
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Yes, It was a false interpretation of the Constitution that invariably created federal law out of thin air. I'm sure you get that. But trust Foggy to play to the gallery. :)

Clearly, you understand this better than most. Why don't you go ahead and spell it out. Tell the folks here the truth you clearly know.

Go ahead, don't be that coward you always like accusing others of being.

State what's right about the decision, what's wrong about it ( You already did this by the way). And then reconcile it.

You can do this. I've got faith in you.
 
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To be honest with you Alan I have never really thought about the issue of abortion that much. Its only reading this thread. Everybody has different standards and morals. What I think is wrong to someone else is perfectly acceptable. I was just giving my point of view and how I feel about it. I am.not going to change my opinion. I think it's wrong to have multiple abortions, or use them as a form of contraception.
 
55yr old teenager said:
What qualifications are looking for? I'm a retired nurse. I am female. I have never been in the awful situation of having to have an abortion. I'm sure for 99% of women it's a heart breaking decision for them, which some spend a lifetime regretting, but they did what they thought to the correct thing to do at that time In their life. I have every sympathy with them having had friends go through this and seen the emotional turmoil and toll it takes on them. I am nobodies moral arbitrator. But I do disagree with women who do to some degree use abortion as a form of contraception.
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It’s fine if you think it’s immoral or amoral. I can’t decide TBH. I think abortion probably can be and has been abused by some in a way that would make me uncomfortable morally. But what is at issue here is if the decision is a woman’s or the state’s, right?
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Life happens. If someone wants to have multiple abortions and are fine with that, why would your morals matter to that person?

Surely you would want the woman in the position to be able to have an abortion should she want one?
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Alan Harper's Tash said:
Life happens. If someone wants to have multiple abortions and are fine with that, why would your morals matter to that person?

Surely you would want the woman in the position to be able to have an abortion should she want one?
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honest with you Alan I have never really thought about the issue of abortion that much. Its only reading this thread. Everybody has different standards and morals. What I think is wrong to someone else is perfectly acceptable. I was just giving my point of view and how I feel about it. I am.not going to change my opinion. I think it's wrong to have multiple abortions, or use them as a form of contraception.

Quote Reply
 
55yr old teenager said:
To be honest with you Alan I have never really thought about the issue of abortion that much. Its only reading this thread. Everybody has different standards and morals. What I think is wrong to someone else is perfectly acceptable. I was just giving my point of view and how I feel about it. I am.not going to change my opinion. I think it's wrong to have multiple abortions, or use them as a form of contraception.
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Fair enough. I’m not trying to question your own morals either. Please accept my apologies if I have made you feel uncomfortable. That really wasn’t my intention.

I think, when I strip it down to basics, that my feeling on abortions are that it is up to the individual in each case. There will be a million different scenarios in play.

What should always be there though, for me, is the right for the woman to choose her own destiny, something which this ruling stops for a lot of American women.
 
55yr old teenager said:
To be honest with you Alan I have never really thought about the issue of abortion that much. Its only reading this thread. Everybody has different standards and morals. What I think is wrong to someone else is perfectly acceptable. I was just giving my point of view and how I feel about it. I am.not going to change my opinion. I think it's wrong to have multiple abortions, or use them as a form of contraception.
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It’s entirely possible to be against abortions personally while believing that in a free and democratic society people should be free to think differently and make their own choices.

It’s called “Pro-choice” not pro-abortion” for a reason.
 
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