Motion - the country is completely broken

Didsbury Dave said:
You don’t rate anyone from any party ever and you’re so clever you don’t even vote. Are you some kind of omnipotent being? What job do you have? It must be something enormous to be as all knowing and all seeing as you.
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What are you talking about? As I previously stated, this will be the first time that I will not vote for Labour.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
So you had enjoyed the benefit of free movement in at least two countries and voted to remove it from others....?
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No, I was there in ‘88 and ‘89. Think freedom of movement came into existence following Maastricht in ‘92. Not sure what, if any, limitations there were when I was there. I do remember that I only had a one year passport and couldn’t get into Berlin.
 
johnnytapia said:
at circa +200k per annum (majority of whom were EU nationals) and felt that wasn’t sustainable.
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Net migration TE June 2022 is estimated at 504k - as I say this was all explained as pert of Project Fear

Meanwhile we have lost our FoM
 
johnnytapia said:
No, I was there in ‘88 and ‘89. Think freedom of movement came into existence following Maastricht in ‘92. Not sure what, if any, limitations there were when I was there. I do remember that I only had a one year passport and couldn’t get into Berlin.
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Not quite correct. Freedom of movement existed before Maastricht but applied to workers, Maastricht created the concept of EU citizenship which extended freedom of movement.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
The media tell you something often enough people start believing it. Joseph Goebbels knew a thing or two about that. Change Jews for immigrants and you start to see the picture.
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When I read that I was going to have a pop, but the more you think about it, that’s how they got to that position.

It’s wretched.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Mate, I'll have another bash at the same point and you know that I am no Tory.

People believed what the Tories and Johnson told them. They believed the media that told them the same messages.
They believed that Labour were unelectable because both the Tories and the media told them that.

Lots of people now realise that they were lied to. Why would they not be angry at that.
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Sorry bud, this is not one I can bring myself to agree with you on. Left it a couple days to try. People get lied to every election, nothing new.

With Brexit, people just didn't want to give a fuck. Didn't want to know, didn't want to care. And same when voting in this government to get it done.

Turkeys voted for Christmas.
Now they are striking.
At Christmas.




This is the reality we chose. Now suck it the fuck up. Stop striking, stop moaning. Go work your bollocks off to afford the bare minimum so I can go work mine off for fuck all to show for it.

Nothing will change if Labour now come in btw, it is too far gone.
 
johnnytapia said:
Therein lies the real tale of why politics is broken in this country. The fact we can have (and have had) “wrong winner” elections (party with highest vote % not being the “winner”) tells you how utterly shite our system is. Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas so it ain’t changing soon.
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In what way do we not have a party with the highest % of votes. The Tories have 44% of the vote. In a parliament made up of 12 parties. For one party to have that percentage of vote is a landslide. Even in PR terms, the 50% benchmark prople here moot only applies when there are only 2 parties fighting it out, plenty PR governments are formed with far lower vote percentages than the current government have.


Please note, I am not arguing for FPTP, or that it is right. But that the government in power isn't one that somehow got through the cracks. It was chosen, by a large margin.
 
Coatigan said:
In what way do we not have a party with the highest % of votes. The Tories have 44% of the vote. In a parliament made up of 12 parties. For one party to have that percentage of vote is a landslide. Even in PR terms, the 50% benchmark prople here moot only applies when there are only 2 parties fighting it out, plenty PR governments are formed with far lower vote percentages than the current government have.


Please note, I am not arguing for FPTP, or that it is right. But that the government in power isn't one that somehow got through the cracks. It was chosen, by a large margin.
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We currently have the party with the largest %, as you’ve correctly pointed out. But it’s possible, and has happened, that the party with largest % hasn’t formed the government- ‘74 and ‘51 I think.
That can’t be right whatever party or voting system one prefers.
 
johnnytapia said:
I listened to many people and read many opinions. Having deliberated and thought long and carefully, I felt voting Leave would be the correct choice.
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Full credit to you for discussing it openly, and no doubt getting a pelter or two. Don't think there is anythi g anyone can tell you now you don't already know. And there will be a fair few like that too. Again, fair play to you.
 
johnnytapia said:
We currently have the party with the largest %, as you’ve correctly pointed out. But it’s possible, and has happened, that the party with largest % hasn’t formed the government- ‘74 and ‘51 I think.
That can’t be right whatever party or voting system one prefers.
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The largest percentage of vote share or mps?

Either way, in a proportional representation world, I think a party having the largest share but not being part of the government is an entirely valid potential position.
 
So ......(this is how ineffective and useless this Government and its bodies is)

My Water authority has been fined £18.5 million for depositing raw sewage into rivers and seas..... and has been told by OFWAT that they have to compensate everyone in the region for their failure to meet targets and the dumping.

So today I have received notice that my annual water bill will be going up by 20% ..... no doubt when they have paid everyone their compensation Yorkshire Water will be no worse off.

Useless.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Does that equate to the rest of the MPs as well? Only asking as the majority seemed to vote that way.

Oh, and who killed a million people, was it us?
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Any MP that voted for the invasion of Iraq has to share some of the responsibility. However, Blair deceived parliament and the public. It was ultimately his decision and his lies that resulted in the war.

In democracies, the country as a whole shares collective responsibility.
 
Homar said:
Any MP that voted for the invasion of Iraq has to share some of the responsibility. However, Blair deceived parliament and the public. It was ultimately his decision and his lies that resulted in the war.

In democracies, the country as a whole shares collective responsibility.
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Pretty sure he got cleared of that didn’t he?
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
So ......(this is how ineffective and useless this Government and its bodies is)

My Water authority has been fined £18.5 million for depositing raw sewage into rivers and seas..... and has been told by OFWAT that they have to compensate everyone in the region for their failure to meet targets and the dumping.

So today I have received notice that my annual water bill will be going up by 20% ..... no doubt when they have paid everyone their compensation Yorkshire Water will be no worse off.

Useless.
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What fucks me off about water companies is that they impose hosepipe bans and declare water shortages despite being a private company that we pay a good amount to have the privilege of receiving their product.

I am sorry Yorkshire Water, not my problem though that you're running out. I'll use what i've paid for as I see fit. We are a country surrounded by water. Sort it out....
 
Nethermoor said:
What fucks me off about water companies is that they impose hosepipe bans and declare water shortages despite being a private company that we pay a good amount to have the privilege of receiving their product.

I am sorry Yorkshire Water, not my problem though that you're running out. I'll use what i've paid for as I see fit. We are a country surrounded by water. Sort it out....
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Fails take on it.
www.thisismoney.co.uk

How our water industry went down the drain

As Britain swelters in the driest summer for half a century, our biggest water firms have been thrust into the spotlight, raising some alarming questions.
www.thisismoney.co.uk www.thisismoney.co.uk

The fooker who caused all this shit is dead and buried, I'd have wished her eternal life after they'd embalmed the cnut.
 
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remember arthur mann said:
Fails take on it.
www.thisismoney.co.uk

How our water industry went down the drain

As Britain swelters in the driest summer for half a century, our biggest water firms have been thrust into the spotlight, raising some alarming questions.
www.thisismoney.co.uk www.thisismoney.co.uk

The fooker who caused all this shit is dead and buried, I'd have wished her eternal life after they'd embalmed the cnut.
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Absolutely no justification whatsoever for the supply of water being in private hands.
 
Coatigan said:
Sorry bud, this is not one I can bring myself to agree with you on. Left it a couple days to try. People get lied to every election, nothing new.

With Brexit, people just didn't want to give a fuck. Didn't want to know, didn't want to care. And same when voting in this government to get it done.

Turkeys voted for Christmas.
Now they are striking.
At Christmas.




This is the reality we chose. Now suck it the fuck up. Stop striking, stop moaning. Go work your bollocks off to afford the bare minimum so I can go work mine off for fuck all to show for it.

Nothing will change if Labour now come in btw, it is too far gone.
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It’s your opinion which I respect.
I tend to agree with your last sentence although I hope they get the opportunity to prove me wrong.
 
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