Is Messi Now Officially the Greatest Footballer in History?

Is Messi the greatest player in football history?

  • Yes

  • No


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IMHO he's the best of the era you can remember, and can rightly take his place in the top 3 of himself, real Ronaldo and of course Johan Cruyff.

Ronaldo's injuries prevent him from being regarded as the greatest ever. I watched his documentary on BBC the other day and it reminded me just how exceptional he was. Speed, trickery, power - everything. His injuries were horrific, particularly his knee going again on his return. They show the footage and he's just balling his eyes out and everyone is in complete shock and despair for him. How he recovered from that to play again I do not know. He was told by surgeon's in America they could heal the injury but he wouldn't kick a ball again, so he went back to his French surgeon and somehow managed to get back on the pitch and take Brazil to World Cup glory. A truly remarkable player. He quite probably would have scored at a ratio similar to Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo if he'd have stayed injury free. His record was still exceptional despite that.

It's almost impossible to judge players from different eras. You can suggest things are easier in terms of pitch quality and sports science/tackling now but you could say the professionalism now makes it much harder to stay at the top of your game because there are so many games and tactics have evolved and the general level of top players is much better. The Brazil goal against Italy in the WC final for example - that Italy side had been in a war with West Germany three days before and were dead on their feet. They didn't and couldn't get close to the ball. It was horrific defending as much as brilliant play from Brazil.

Messi's record is just staggering. Beyond anything we've ever seen. Was it harder to score goals in times gone by? I don't think so. Dixie Dean had a pretty stunning ratio! I think, on that basis I'd have to say Messi is the best ever.
 
The world cup is the biggest tournament in football, its the most watched and the trophy most players dream about. I'm not fussed on international football but the world cup is the most prestigious trophy. I just dont think you can put Messi above Pele at all.

Messi may have the records goals etc but Pele won the biggest trophy in football 3 times thats a outrageous achievement he also does have incredible individual records as well. I wasnt alive to see him play as i was born much later. but even watching clips and reading about him, he did things that no other players were doing, the skill moves we see today he did them first.
 
The world cup is the biggest tournament in football, its the most watched and the trophy most players dream about. I'm not fussed on international football but the world cup is the most prestigious trophy. I just dont think you can put Messi above Pele at all.

Messi may have the records goals etc but Pele won the biggest trophy in football 3 times thats a outrageous achievement he also does have incredible individual records as well. I wasnt alive to see him play as i was born much later. but even watching clips and reading about him, he did things that no other players were doing, the skill moves we see today he did them first.

The Champions League is the biggest tournament in club football. It’s the most watched and the trophy most players dream about. On that logic I don’t think you can put KDB or David Silva above Darren Fletcher at all.
 
according to some annoying logic out there

if Haaland doesn't win the WC with Norway then he can't be considered a great striker.
 
The thing I’d say to those dismissing Pele as he only played in a “school boy” or “farmers “ league, is that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

In those days very few players moved abroad. Every single player in the Brazil squads that won the World Cup in 1958, 1962 and 1970 played for Brazilian clubs. That suggests it was one if not the best League around at the time.

It’s not as if Santos were a South American version of a modern day Bayern Munich or PSG either. They did win five titles on the spin early in Pelé’s career. But after that they only won one more title during his 18 years at the club.

None of us really knows. But the evidence suggests that the Brazilian League before the mass exodus of their best players to Europe began, was right up there amongst the best leagues in the world.
 
The thing I’d say to those dismissing Pele as he only played in a “school boy” or “farmers “ league, is that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

In those days very few players moved abroad. Every single player in the Brazil squads that won the World Cup in 1958, 1962 and 1970 played for Brazilian clubs. That suggests it was one if not the best League around at the time.

It’s not as if Santos were a South American version of a modern day Bayern Munich or PSG either. They did win five titles on the spin early in Pelé’s career. But after that they only won one more title during his 18 years at the club.

None of us really knows. But the evidence suggests that the Brazilian League before the mass exodus of their best players to Europe began, was right up there amongst the best leagues in the world.

It's dead easy, you can't compare eras when talking about sports or indeed music.
 
The Champions League is the biggest tournament in club football. It’s the most watched and the trophy most players dream about. On that logic I don’t think you can put KDB or David Silva above Darren Fletcher at all.
Spot on mate. Good point well made. Both players were phenomenal but Messi has done it in Europe where it's more competitive and now the world. There is no one better, the next best was Maradona.
 
The world cup is the biggest tournament in football, its the most watched and the trophy most players dream about. I'm not fussed on international football but the world cup is the most prestigious trophy. I just dont think you can put Messi above Pele at all.

Messi may have the records goals etc but Pele won the biggest trophy in football 3 times thats an outrageous achievement he also does have incredible individual records as well. I wasnt alive to see him play as i was born much later. but even watching clips and reading about him, he did things that no other players were doing, the skill moves we see today he did them first.
What a player has won should not be a defining factor about how good he was.

Kun Agüero, Vincent Kompany and David Silva never won the Champions League, never even played in a final, yet Jordan Henderson has lifted the trophy and played in three finals overall.

International football should also not be the barometer a player is considered on. Yes, the World Cup is the biggest stage in terms of prestige. But it isn’t in terms of quality. That Senegal team England faced in the Ro16 had a front three that played in the Championship, you don’t get that in the Ro16 of the Champions League. Not one of Argentina’s midfield would get in City’s team, that Acuña who played a part across the tournament (not a very good one, mind) wouldn’t even get in City’s third XI, yet they won the World Cup.

Also didn’t Pele himself say that Garrincha was doing all those skills before he was?

 
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Not for me, greatest of his generation Yes easily, I think Pele and Maradona were both better.
 
I get that you're a fan but come on fella, he scored 200 goals compared to Messi's 700.
It's just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Yeah, Messi and the other players mentioned are fantastic, but they aren't having their legs chopped from under them while playing on pitches no better than a muddy field.

He may 'only' have scored 200 goals, but he was effecitvely finished as a top flight footballer at an early age even in those days. He had his problems, but nothing will shake me from regarding him as the most exciting footballer I have ever watched.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.
 
I intensely object to the idea that you've got to be a World Cup winner to be in this conversation. It's seven matches, for heaven's sake!
Cruyff is definitely in the conversation, and he was arguably the best player at the ’74 tournament, despite not winning it. He never won it.
For the record, I put Messi up there with Pelé. But I did anyway, before Sunday's result.
 
I intensely object to the idea that you've got to be a World Cup winner to be in this conversation. It's seven matches, for heaven's sake!
Cruyff is definitely in the conversation, and he was arguably the best player at the ’74 tournament, despite not winning it. He never won it.
For the record, I put Messi up there with Pelé. But I did anyway, before Sunday's result.
I mostly agree.

But then again, there's this - if you're the greatest of all time, and you made the World Cup with a half-decent team, then you need to win the cup. If you fail to win the cup - then are you really so great?

By this measure, and for what he did at both Napoli and Argentina, I've come to favor (slightly) Maradona as the greatest of all time. Spectacular individually - but also able to propel his ok-ish teams to victory - for both club and country.

Messi eventually took Argentina to victory at the WC - but he had a decent supporting cast. At the club level, he benefited from numerous world class players.

Maradona though - took an average Napoli to the Champion's League and won - and took an OK Argentina to the World Cup, and won.
 
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Maradona though - took an average Napoli to the Champion's League winners - and took an average Argentina to world cup winners.

He did, and I don't want to put myself in the false position of decrying Maradona's ability. But in my scale of values, time lines count — a lot. Maradona's apogee is on a really short time line, by comparison. Messi won his first La Liga title in 2005. The following year he won his first CL title. Seventeen years later he's just won the World Cup. There's a good chance he'll be champion in his domestic league, yet again (although no-one would argue it's one of the stronger ones in Europe, granted) and, who knows, he may yet win another CL title.
Maradona won one title with Boca Juniors before departing. His tenure at Barcelona started well and ended two years later in something close to disgrace. The really astonishing time was at Napoli, where he effectively transformed a very obscure team into title winners. But his apogee scarcely lasted beyond ’89, at best. Again, he left in disgrace. We're really looking at six years of greatness, being generous. His case seems to me to be comparable to Best. Best was the most extraordinary player that I've seen live, but you're really looking at brilliance that could transform the outcome of matches from about ’65 to ’69. Beyond that, Best was in pretty sharp decline, although he remained able to do things that virtually no other footballer could, on very rare occasions.
Men evolve as athletes over years. What their body will allow them to do changes, becomes more constricted. Messi has delivered in Spain, more recently France, and Europe, over and over and over, year after year, for seventeen years. The only stage on which he's failed to deliver, till now, was that of a competition that takes place once every four years, and that I'm not inclined to attach undue importance to, despite the razzamataz around it. I greatly admire athletes who are in it for the long haul. It takes discipline as well as the talent — and that is one of the ingredients of greatness, too. Messi didn't need to drink himself under the table, nor take cocaine. He has realised that he has an extraordinary gift, and he has nurtured it. I take my hat off to him for that as much as anything.
For similar reasons, I put Pelé up there. He won his first World Cup in 1958. He won his third in 1970. That had never been done before and I am utterly confident that we will not see it again. It's like Laver doing the calendar grand slam twice, but with seven years between the two! It's more difficult to evaluate Pelé domestically, because basically he only played at a serious level in one country: Brazil. But the Brazilian league was not a Mickey Mouse league in those years, far from it. It produced many brilliant players. He scored some thousand goals, and sorry, I'm not going to quibble about whether they were in friendlies or not. A thousand goals is just ridiculous, in professional football.
More important, though, even than goals, or trophies: both players produced hundreds of brilliant performances.
It's horses for courses, though, and we'll agree to differ. If I love the sport of football so much, it's because I've seen Maradona, Messi, Pelé, Cruyff invent the game in front of my eyes.

Incidentally, the greatest athlete of them all is one most will never have heard of: Edwin Moses. I like to remind people about him. Ed Moses ran the 400 hurdles at the very highest level, at all the top athletics meets, and was unbeaten for fully ten years (122 races). That is just sick! Oh, you can throw in a couple of Olympic golds along the way, just for good measure…
 
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What marks Pele out as the better player out of interest? To be a better player than Messi would basically mean you were superhuman.
Not saying he wasn’t but I doubt there’s much old coverage of his league games in Brazil that people can go off.
 
I mostly agree.

But then again, there's this - if you're the greatest of all time, and you made the World Cup with a half-decent team, then you need to win the cup. If you fail to win the cup - then are you really so great?

By this measure, and for what he did at both Napoli and Argentina, I've come to favor (slightly) Maradona as the greatest of all time. Spectacular individually - but also able to propel his ok-ish teams to victory - for both club and country.

Messi eventually took Argentina to victory at the WC - but he had a decent supporting cast. At the club level, he benefited from numerous world class players.

Maradona though - took an average Napoli to the Champion's League and won - and took an OK Argentina to the World Cup, and won.
Maradona won the UEFA Cup (now the Europa League) with Napoli. Napoli have never won the European Cup (now the Champions League).
 
What marks Pele out as the better player out of interest? To be a better player than Messi would basically mean you were superhuman.
Not saying he wasn’t but I doubt there’s much old coverage of his league games in Brazil that people can go off.
I think Pele was bigger, stronger, faster and better in the air than Messi. This is based on the limited footage that I have seen and the books that I have read. Whether this makes him a better player or not is debatable.
 
I think Pele was bigger, stronger, faster and better in the air than Messi. This is based on the limited footage that I have seen and the books that I have read. Whether this makes him a better player or not is debatable.
Yeah he was bigger and better in the air for sure. Stronger or faster I don’t know, maybe he was though I’ve seen Messi hold off far larger opposition players and take some proper poundings (as did Pele) and he’s far quicker, or at least was a few years ago than I think some would believe.
I just find it curious when posters say he was better with so much certainty when it’s doubtful they saw much of him other than the usual highlight reels.
 

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