Lack of pace on the wings

JewelZee said:
And...we started with Phil Haaland and Grealish up top and got not one but two hat tricks! that's what people are trying to say and asking questions. You're making the point for those that are peeved. The current set up is boring and predictable as fuck.
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The problem is not the wingers it is the fullbacks.

To play like what we did at the Derby you need two true fullbacks staying in the traditional position providing width. We play fullbacks in traditional positions again against Chelsea in the cup game with Gomez and Lewis. And that match was also fast and entertaining despite FFS and FFS both started on the wing. So you see... it is not the wingers it is the fullbacks...

But we lost Walker ever since and Pep clearly does not trust Gomez. And Pep seems to have some issues with Cancelo. I really don't understand this. Fullbacks are not expensive. You can get some decent bloke with 20M or so price from Germany. Why not?
 
applejuice said:
Speaking of this season Mahrez&Grealish rarely started together in the PL but they won the games except this one against Everton.

Do you really think that we did not win this one because this winger pair, not an off pace KDB or a shaky defense who cannot defend the only time counter came down that side?

While Foden & Bernado pair has the worst winning percentage this season...
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Start Mahrez Palmer and Grealish. We'll "control" the ball all game even though we may never score a goal...
 
JewelZee said:
Start Mahrez Palmer and Grealish. We'll "control" the ball all game even though we may never score a goal...
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We started Mahrez Palmer Grealish and Alvarez and we had a fast and entertaining match vs Chelsea...

It is really not about the wingers.

We started Foden vs Brentford and it was bad as well.

As long as we start 3 CB at the back with 1 reverted fullback it really does not matter who is on the wing...
 
JewelZee said:
And...we started with Phil Haaland and Grealish up top and got not one but two hat tricks! that's what people are trying to say and asking questions. You're making the point for those that are peeved. The current set up is boring and predictable as fuck.
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We do lack pace on the wings and sometimes we are predictable but we are never boring in my view. The two preceding matches before Everton were great (Liverpool and Leeds) and we are one of the leading scorers in Europe (as we usually are). We have already scored 64 goals in all matches this season. The difference against United was Foden's pace and the fact that KDB was on fire.
We are not firing on all cylinders at present and Grealish is really struggling but I remain confident that Pep will sort it out for the business end of the season. Let's wait and see.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
We do lack pace on the wings and sometimes we are predictable but we are never boring in my view. The two preceding matches before Everton were great (Liverpool and Leeds) and we are one of the leading scorers in Europe (as we usually are). We have already scored 64 goals in all matches this season. The difference against United was Foden's pace and the fact that KDB was on fire.
We are not firing on all cylinders at present and Grealish is really struggling but I remain confident that Pep will sort it out for the business end of the season. Let's wait and see.
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I thought it was only me who thought the previous two games against Liverpool and Leeds were both entertaining, where we played some really good attacking football and could have scored a lot more than the six goals we scored over those two matches.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
The elephant in the room and increasingly so, is the slowing down of Kev.

His risk reward ratio was always offset by his and others' ability to get back in on the turnover of the ball.

Kev has had some truly shocking performances this season and Everton was another, where he was trying to force it when his fitness was letting him down.

He looks more and more for that killer pass when his legs can't take the strain.
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agreed. I said this last year about him.....he just looks half a yard slower (not that he was ever lightening quick) but you can see there is a strain on him at times.
 
simon23 said:
agreed. I said this last year about him.....he just looks half a yard slower (not that he was ever lightening quick) but you can see there is a strain on him at times.
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It is a worry and the decision to play him in 3 consecutive games was z mistake,. The Everton game as made for Gundo especially against a team that only attacked twice.
He could have been rested the other day so that he had a rest before playing a game and a half v Chelsea and then a rest again before the Rags
 
BrianW said:
Kev is getting older, he has hardly had a rest in two years, and IMO asking him to play three games in a week is unreasonable. The guy is fucking knackered. But he is a quality player and if you leave him out you have to work out how to replace him.
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Spot-on. Kev has reached a stage in his career where he needs to be carefully managed. He was superb against Liverpool and Leeds but should have been rested for Everton. He also needs to retire from Belgium as soon as possible to extend his career. He is fantastic but not a miracle worker. A combination of Gundo and Foden or Bernardo has ususally worked in the past when Kev is missing. Pep must be aware of this problem.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
The elephant in the room and increasingly so, is the slowing down of Kev.

His risk reward ratio was always offset by his and others' ability to get back in on the turnover of the ball.

Kev has had some truly shocking performances this season and Everton was another, where he was trying to force it when his fitness was letting him down.

He looks more and more for that killer pass when his legs can't take the strain.
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All this talk about systems, the biggest one for me has been the 442 we play when out of possession, which is designed to cover Kev's deficiencies fitness wise. We're not in the right shape to win it high up the pitch anymore
 
city warrior said:
Rodri is better than Fernandinho. People here think pace= good. I guess Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta were poor and not the best midfield ever. Reality is we have been more succesful and competitive the slower we've become. The problem right now is not our style, it is that Walker has been injured for months. I am 100% as soon as he is back, we'll be a different team.
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I am a huge rodri fan and rate him really highly. He is not and never will be better than Fernandinho though.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
The elephant in the room and increasingly so, is the slowing down of Kev.

His risk reward ratio was always offset by his and others' ability to get back in on the turnover of the ball.

Kev has had some truly shocking performances this season and Everton was another, where he was trying to force it when his fitness was letting him down.

He looks more and more for that killer pass when his legs can't take the strain.
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I don’t disagree. His performances from one week to the next have never been so bipolar. I understand the argument that he has set standards for himself so high that any drop below is noticeable, but the weekend performance was bad by any players standards. The issue is when he plays badly it isn’t just that he doesn’t have an impact but due to the type of passes he tries to play he actually just loses the ball a lot for us. This makes him a detriment. It’s definitely a cause for concern as we have also relied on him so heavily this season to be the cutting edge- his best performances have been the teams also.

I guess the question is what do you do about it? Would performances be more consistent without him? Bernardo and gundogan have had some fantastic games when they’ve played together without Kev from memory. But, can we really drop our best player when he’s still so important in a lot of games…
 
Dazzle84 said:
All this talk about systems, the biggest one for me has been the 442 we play when out of possession, which is designed to cover Kev's deficiencies fitness wise. We're not in the right shape to win it high up the pitch anymore
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Great shout both in passion and out of possession I’m not a fan of the formation atm. 442 out of possession without the real pressure from the top two in Kev and haaland (would be different with Alvarez). In possession a 3-2-4-1 (back 3 w/ Rodri and other fullback in front)
 
I disagree re KDB. It's only a game ago since we were saying he's back to his best. He's entitled to an off day after 3 games in a week, and when he's probably risked some chocolate, a nip of alcohol, or a pig in a blanket.
Oh ye of little faith! Cu at Stamford Bridge on Thursday when Walker and Foden reappear and we transform into title contenders again as we put Chelsea to the sword.
 
This is my first reply here even though I am here for almost 2 years. So go easy on me.

This is actually the first time, Pep is playing without a pacy tricky winger.

In his Barca and Bayern days, he had pacy wingers or strikers that played as wingers.

Now it feels like we have 6 players (Inverted rb, cdm, two 8's and both wingers) in the field playing the same way. They all can interchange their position and you won't see any significant changes. They aren't bringing anything new to the table that can create threats to opponent. KDB getting old is also creating this problem.

When we played with a false 9. It worked because we could easily play with the ball untill chances arrived. But now that we have Haaland. Players need to release the ball early. So they are looking sloppy. And it's not their fault either. We have played in a false 9 system for 2 years. So it won't be easy for them to just abandon it from their dna.

I can see two paths from here.

1) Either Pep finds a system(like he always did) to bring the best out of all our players

Or 2) Go back to his pre false 9 period. For that, we will need atleast one pacy wingers. One tempo controller like David Silva. We can all talk about how great Bernardo or Gundogan (Gundo is better than Bernardo for the role) is. But neither can do what Silva did.
And one fast and strong fullback.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
The elephant in the room and increasingly so, is the slowing down of Kev.

His risk reward ratio was always offset by his and others' ability to get back in on the turnover of the ball.

Kev has had some truly shocking performances this season and Everton was another, where he was trying to force it when his fitness was letting him down.

He looks more and more for that killer pass when his legs can't take the strain.
Click to expand...
Very much the elephant in the room and very much something that needs discussing.

KDB is now a player that has wonderful moments but as you say has some shocking games, he is a luxury player , nothing wrong with that but we are starting to collect those type of players, Mahrez and Grealish are similar, but can we afford to have them in the team at the same time?
 
simon23 said:
agreed. I said this last year about him.....he just looks half a yard slower (not that he was ever lightening quick) but you can see there is a strain on him at times.
Click to expand...
He had a terrible World Cup. I don’t think fitness was the reason. since that, he has played three games in a week. Brilliant in the first two and poor in the third. He is still fast enough to run past most. If memory serves me correct he has 14 assists and the season isn’t half way through. What worries me far more is nobody seems capable of stepping in with the assists when Kevin is below par.
 
Keeper! said:
Very much the elephant in the room and very much something that needs discussing.

KDB is now a player that has wonderful moments but as you say has some shocking games, he is a luxury player , nothing wrong with that but we are starting to collect those type of players, Mahrez and Grealish are similar, but can we afford to have them in the team at the same time?
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Luxury player with 14 assists and season not half way through.
 
city warrior said:
Rodri is better than Fernandinho. People here think pace= good. I guess Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta were poor and not the best midfield ever. Reality is we have been more succesful and competitive the slower we've become. The problem right now is not our style, it is that Walker has been injured for months. I am 100% as soon as he is back, we'll be a different team.
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Rodri is a fantastic player but he is not as good as Fernandinho, thats not putting Rodri down whatsoever, it is just that Fern was on another level
 
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