The Album Review Club - Week #196 (page 1316) - Aja - Steely Dan

[OB1]

Before I forget, I'll give Doolittle 5/10.

I'm afraid I've only had one listen as I'm in listen to my Xmas cd's mode (the presents not type of music) - the playlist I made from them has 714 tracks so I have work to do.

I've never bothered with The Pixies so pleased to have heard this. It did remind me of other bands but I couldn't be bothered to work out if that was due to their influence or their influences.

Anyhoo, it's uneven and I'm not minded to rush back but maybe I'll investigate their greatest hits album.

 

[OB1]

Fair point. I think what is was trying to draw a distinction between is the art and the artist. Just because a player plays punk doesn’t mean they can’t physically play their instrument, nor does it mean they can’t learn nor change, and most successful punk musicians can and did. Punk’s greatest legacy IMO is that it created a world where it was acceptable (if not sometimes even preferable) to start or join a band without being able to play. It was idea and attitude first. And that’s quite freeing, and created(s) all kinds of new possibilities directionally. Exhibit A: the bassist in the very band we’re discussing! Kim Deal joined Pixies without knowing how to play a note. And the world is better for it.

I got the point ;-). I agree with you on Punk's greatest legacy.

 

[OB1]

When I regularly posted on another forum, some kind gentlemen sent 4 FOUR CDs worth of reggae that he'd put together. There were a few songs that made me think there was more to it than I initially thought, but it didn't convert me.

I love Bob Marley's "Iron, Lion, Zion" though.

Just for reference, I think my preferred genres (ordered popular to yuck) would be as follows.
I think I've got all the major areas covered and thinking about it, punk is far from the worst.

- Roots-rock/Americana
- Classic rock
- Blues
----------- Champions League Placings kind of line --------------
- Hard rock
- Indie (as long as it doesn't feature whiny British vocalists - sing man, just sing and move the fader up!)
- Pop with nice chords, hooks and harmony vocals
- Soul
- Jazz (not that I listen t a lot, but it's OK in small doses)
---------- Relegation Danger Line -----------------------
- Punk (the less screechy, more instrumental prowess, the better)
- DJs prancing about remixing stuff (although I must confess to having found a few tracks I like, but generally it's not my thing)
- Reggae
- Pop where's there's such flimsy instrumental backing, you wonder why they bothered - e.g. Craig David)
- Hip Hop and all that dub/trance bollocks
- Rap (even here, there's always an exception: "Gangsta's Paradises" OK, but Weird Al Yankovic's "Amish Paradise" is far better)

I've never tried to rank genre's of music beyond saying Classic Rock is my preference but that itself is a broad church with multiple sub-genres.

I have albums from all the genres you've listed aside from Trance; although the Reggae is just a few Bob Marley albums and I think the only DJ album is the Fat Boy Slim one with City's intro music on it.

 

[Coatigan]

Good job I didn’t go for my controversial choice ;)

Or is it? ;)

 

[RobMCFC]

I've bought The Smithereens' greatest hits album thanks to you. It will get its first airing on the way to MCR tomorrow.

Good stuff. You may know more about them than me by the end of the week.

I’m sure we all have these artists, but I bought The Smithereens’ album 11 (which contains “A Girl Like You”) and played it to death for a couple of years. It’s a fantastic album but I never ended up buying any others. Probably another artist I need to listen to some more.

Before I forget, I'll give Doolittle 5/10.

I'm afraid I've only had one listen as I'm in listen to my Xmas cd's mode (the presents not type of music) - the playlist I made from them has 714 tracks so I have work to do.

I've never bothered with The Pixies so pleased to have heard this. It did remind me of other bands but I couldn't be bothered to work out if that was due to their influence or their influences.

Anyhoo, it's uneven and I'm not minded to rush back but maybe I'll investigate their greatest hits album.

I may be giving you some help this week because it’s my turn to nominate, and IIRC, this may be an album you already know. I may be misremembering, but a few weeks after joining here I mentioned this on one of BlueHammer’s polls and somebody commented on some of the songs. It may have been you, but I guess we’ll find out on Wednesday.

 

[threespires]

I have always thought of The Jam as a poor man’s Who but never the Stranglers as a poor man’s Doors but the idea and symmetry of that comparison has a lot of appeal. The difference is I like The Who a ton better than The Doors, whereas I can take or leave both The Jam and The Stranglers save for a few pretty righteous tunes from both.

Tbf I'm not sure these types of comparisons are that meaningful, it's a bit like trying to compare Colin the King and KDB. I would disagree with yours and OB1s characterisation of The Jam primarily because I don't think it's a straight apples v apples comparison. The Jam were a product of lots of different inputs and influences beyond The Who.

I think because we are all human we suffer from all sorts of cognitive biases, confirmation bias being one of the most common. I know I do when it comes to the music of my youth. I like it more when people focus on why they really like something.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Tbf I'm not sure these types of comparisons are that meaningful, it's a bit like trying to compare Colin the King and KDB. I would disagree with yours and OB1s characterisation of The Jam primarily because I don't think it's a straight apples v apples comparison. The Jam were a product of lots of different inputs and influences beyond The Who.

I think because we are all human we suffer from all sorts of cognitive biases, confirmation bias being one of the most common. I know I do when it comes to the music of my youth. I like it more when people focus on why they really like something.

It's a gross simplification of complex subjects -- bands, music, influences, personalities -- and not meant to be taken literally. If we want to go more in-depth, I am prepared to argue that Weller wrote a lot of hookless tunes, and a lot of meaningless tunes, and a fair number of derivative tunes, along with some that were neither hookless nor meaningless nor derivative -- but too few to be considered in the pantheon in which so many Brits place his band (or him). I do own "Setting Sons". I am on record as saying my favo(u)rite Jam song is "Smithers-Jones", which wasn't even a Weller job. But TBF to Jam fans, I am without the attitudinal context of late 70s/early 80s Britain as well -- and that seems particularly important given how "English" I think they are, compared to The Who, whose themes are far more universal IMO. Unlike The Stranglers, I've heard everything The Jam did because one of my college roomates was an enormous fan -- they were his all time favo(u)rite band.

 

[OB1]

Tbf I'm not sure these types of comparisons are that meaningful, it's a bit like trying to compare Colin the King and KDB. I would disagree with yours and OB1s characterisation of The Jam primarily because I don't think it's a straight apples v apples comparison. The Jam were a product of lots of different inputs and influences beyond The Who.

I think because we are all human we suffer from all sorts of cognitive biases, confirmation bias being one of the most common. I know I do when it comes to the music of my youth. I like it more when people focus on why they really like something.

I was of course being very broad brush and a touch tongue-in-cheek.

I have to say The Jam who my stance on has never softened much. I've always considered them overrated and I just don't take to Weller's vocals. Even so, I do have a best of album in my collection.

KDB and Bell are on similar levels, The Jam and The Who are most definitely not - my opinion, of course :-)

 

[bennyboy]

I was of course being very broad brush and a touch tongue-in-cheek.

I have to say The Jam who my stance on has never softened much. I've always considered them overrated and I just don't take to Weller's vocals. Even so, I do have a best of album in my collection.

KDB and Bell are on similar levels, The Jam and The Who are most definitely not - my opinion, of course :-)

Correct the Jam piss all over the Who.
The Small Faces and The Kinks more of an influence on Weller from All Mod Cons onwards.

 

[OB1]

Correct the Jam piss all over the Who.

Yeah, right.

 

[threespires]

Yeah, right.

And this is why I like it more when we talk more about what we like and why, I don't like it when we get arsey about stuff !!

Dislike of conflict is possibly my main achilles heel which I've had to learn to manage and control in the workplace but I come on this thread cause everyone seems at least semi house trained and discusses things rather than argues.

So please be fucking nice to each other you bastards.

 

[threespires]

It's a gross simplification of complex subjects -- bands, music, influences, personalities -- and not meant to be taken literally. If we want to go more in-depth, I am prepared to argue that Weller wrote a lot of hookless tunes, and a lot of meaningless tunes, and a fair number of derivative tunes, along with some that were neither hookless nor meaningless nor derivative -- but too few to be considered in the pantheon in which so many Brits place his band (or him). I do own "Setting Sons". I am on record as saying my favo(u)rite Jam song is "Smithers-Jones", which wasn't even a Weller job. But TBF to Jam fans, I am without the attitudinal context of late 70s/early 80s Britain as well -- and that seems particularly important given how "English" I think they are, compared to The Who, whose themes are far more universal IMO. Unlike The Stranglers, I've heard everything The Jam did because one of my college roomates was an enormous fan -- they were his all time favo(u)rite band.

That's fair enough but I think that is sort of the point I was trying to make. I think that time and place context is so critical to people's responses and preferences to some degree it makes the dots not so much redundant but only part of the equation and the bit I like the most is the context of why people love something. I would not disagree at all re. the universality of The Who compared to the very 'englishness' of The Jam which was part of my point about apples v apples. Part of me wants to get into a conversation about the number and level of hooks and my view of the level of quality control The Who exercised throughout their career but in reality that's just my biases kicking in because I bristled at your original proposition and in doing so I'd be entirely undermining my own claimed position. Also it sort of sucks the joy out of the discussion.

So I'm back off to The Pixies and my essay "Black Francis, good or bad influence on Thom Yorke?" :-)

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

That's fair enough but I think that is sort of the point I was trying to make. I think that time and place context is so critical to people's responses and preferences to some degree it makes the dots not so much redundant but only part of the equation and the bit I like the most is the context of why people love something. I would not disagree at all re. the universality of The Who compared to the very 'englishness' of The Jam which was part of my point about apples v apples. Part of me wants to get into a conversation about the number and level of hooks and my view of the level of quality control The Who exercised throughout their career but in reality that's just my biases kicking in because I bristled at your original proposition and in doing so I'd be entirely undermining my own claimed position. Also it sort of sucks the joy out of the discussion.

So I'm back off to The Pixies and my essay "Black Francis, good or bad influence on Thom Yorke?" :-)

Ha ha ha fair enough!! Again, to be clear — to use a cursory descriptor doesn’t define a band, or dismiss them, and wouldn’t for me under any circumstances. And it doesn’t mean one stops there nor should it. But for a living I rate stocks. I use single word descriptors (like Buy, Hold and Sell), mnemonic phrases, descriptive paragraphs and lengthy 30+ page reports to describe stocks and companies, and everything in between. The hardest work is the second — the mnemonic that summarizes my take on the company and its story in a way clients will recall. So when I hear others that appeal to me in other contexts, I like to note them :).

 

[threespires]

I assumed she was referring to 'Nazi punks...' and 'Too drunk to...'.

That makes much more sense thinking about it re. Too drunk to... I was just thinking about the arguing and trouble we got into with a couple of teachers over California Uber Alles which it would be fair to say they hated but that hardly counts as global controversy!

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

The Kinks more of an influence on Weller from All Mod Cons onwards.

I buy that; explains a lot TBH. Kinks also often intensely English thematically and I do like a lot of their music. Their live double is still my favo(u)rite live record albeit I’m not a big fan of live records overall.

In fact, I just put some old Kinks on my Spotify and I can see the connections. So how about this — The Kinks piss all over The Jam :).

I do like The Jam’s cover of David Watts.

 

[threespires]

Ha ha ha fair enough!! Again, to be clear — to use a cursory descriptor doesn’t define a band, or dismiss them, and wouldn’t for me under any circumstances. And it doesn’t mean one stops there nor should it. But for a living I rate stocks. I use single word descriptors (like Buy, Hold and Sell), mnemonic phrases, descriptive paragraphs and lengthy 30+ page reports to describe stocks and companies, and everything in between. The hardest work is the second — the mnemonic that summarizes my take on the company and its story in a way clients will recall. So when I hear others that appeal to me in other contexts, I like to note them :).

That makes sense, I suppose it's a bit like elevator pitches for start ups. The advice has always been to have a 'it's the Tinder for xyz' or 'its like Uber but for abc' type descriptor which tells an understandable story instantaneously.

 

[crublue1]

Hi all.
I've not contributed for a while for reasons I won't go into here, but I have followed the thread and listened to every nomination.
I've loved the discussion around this record, in fact I've been secretly hoping for a pixies nomination since the thread started, as they are one of my favourite bands.
When I was on the list of nominees before I withdrew, Surfer Rosa was going to be my choice.
It's been great reading everyones thoughts, and most, if not all, are valid. I found myself nodding, if not always agreeing with a lot of the opinions aired.
That's the beauty about this band, they can be awful and brilliant in the space of 3 minutes. One minute it's a howling mess, the next it's perfect punk/ pop with snakey bass, vocal harmonics and hooky, hooks.
It's addictive if you like it, repulsive sometimes, if you don't, and are easily dismissed as such. I get that.
When I first heard surfer Rosa back in the eighties, it was, for want of a better word, challenging, to say the least. But I kind of knew it was different enough for me to stick with it, and it was obvious to even my untrained ear they had talent, and lots of it. Now this may be that there was a lot of crap about at the time, but nonetheless I grew to love the album, and the band.
I've always liked things a bit different, and they were certainly that.
On to Frank then, briefly.
He's written some great tunes, and he delivers the lyrics how he sees fit. I've never questioned this really, but I admit I've never tried, or felt the need to. I've just always liked him and the way he leads the band, however he delivers the vocals I've just accepted it.
If I wanted simple lyrics, simply delivered in a simple to understand format, I'd put James blunt on.
Sometimes you just like things and you can't quite quantify why, or feel the need to.
Doolitle is a great record if you're a pixies fan, but it won't convert anyone who didn't like Surfer Rosa.
There is one major fault with it though, it hasn't got an instrumental track, which are normally brilliant.
I won't give it a score as that wouldn't be fair.
Enjoyed all your comments, by for now x

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Tunes?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Tbf I'm not sure these types of comparisons are that meaningful, it's a bit like trying to compare Colin the King and KDB. I would disagree with yours and OB1s characterisation of The Jam primarily because I don't think it's a straight apples v apples comparison. The Jam were a product of lots of different inputs and influences beyond The Who.

I think because we are all human we suffer from all sorts of cognitive biases, confirmation bias being one of the most common. I know I do when it comes to the music of my youth. I like it more when people focus on why they really like something.

opinions are like arseholes mate. Everyone has one. Everyone speaks their own truth about music and it is 100% correct from their perspective and pointless arguing.
Music like all art is very personal and touches our emotions in very different ways. This thread is great fun and good conversation but is pointless when it gets to band A is better than band B.



The only truth really is KB is a musical genius ;-)
No point in anyone arguing because that’s my truth.

 

[RobMCFC]

Hi all.
I've not contributed for a while for reasons I won't go into here, but I have followed the thread and listened to every nomination.
I've loved the discussion around this record, in fact I've been secretly hoping for a pixies nomination since the thread started, as they are one of my favourite bands.
When I was on the list of nominees before I withdrew, Surfer Rosa was going to be my choice.
It's been great reading everyones thoughts, and most, if not all, are valid. I found myself nodding, if not always agreeing with a lot of the opinions aired.
That's the beauty about this band, they can be awful and brilliant in the space of 3 minutes. One minute it's a howling mess, the next it's perfect punk/ pop with snakey bass, vocal harmonics and hooky, hooks.
It's addictive if you like it, repulsive sometimes, if you don't, and are easily dismissed as such. I get that.
When I first heard surfer Rosa back in the eighties, it was, for want of a better word, challenging, to say the least. But I kind of knew it was different enough for me to stick with it, and it was obvious to even my untrained ear they had talent, and lots of it. Now this may be that there was a lot of crap about at the time, but nonetheless I grew to love the album, and the band.
I've always liked things a bit different, and they were certainly that.
On to Frank then, briefly.
He's written some great tunes, and he delivers the lyrics how he sees fit. I've never questioned this really, but I admit I've never tried, or felt the need to. I've just always liked him and the way he leads the band, however he delivers the vocals I've just accepted it.
If I wanted simple lyrics, simply delivered in a simple to understand format, I'd put James blunt on.
Sometimes you just like things and you can't quite quantify why, or feel the need to.
Doolitle is a great record if you're a pixies fan, but it won't convert anyone who didn't like Surfer Rosa.
There is one major fault with it though, it hasn't got an instrumental track, which are normally brilliant.
I won't give it a score as that wouldn't be fair.
Enjoyed all your comments, by for now x

Feel free to add a score - anybody is entitled to score and you put a lot of effort at the start of this thread (and of course the door is always open if you want to nominate again, but no pressure either way).

It’s interesting how a few have come on here and say they’ve followed the thread from the start, silently in some cases.