The Album Review Club - Week #196 (page 1316) - Aja - Steely Dan

As part of my revision for my next choice (no, not this Wednesday’s, but the one that will come in May/June!!), I’ve been listening to Marquee Moon, the debut album by Television. Released in 1977, it is considered one of the early US punk releases, although it is on the mellower side.

Now if that’s how punk is supposed to sound, I’d say I like it a whole lot better than what I thought punk was. Never heard it before but what a terrific guitar album.
Marquee Moon isn't just one of the greatest debuts of all time it's one of the greatest and underrated and unexplored albums of all time full stop. In my opinion of course.Tom Verlaine made my list of Top 10 guitarists.
 
Marquee Moon isn't just one of the greatest debuts of all time it's one of the greatest and underrated and unexplored albums of all time full stop. In my opinion of course.Tom Verlaine made my list of Top 10 guitarists.
I loved Marquee Moon at the time.
It must be well over 20 years since I listened to it.
 
Marquee Moon isn't just one of the greatest debuts of all time it's one of the greatest and underrated and unexplored albums of all time full stop. In my opinion of course.Tom Verlaine made my list of Top 10 guitarists.

You say underrated but critics loved it and have put it high on the list of greatest albums, to the extent I’d say it could be deemed overrated. It is a very good album in my view.
 
As part of my revision for my next choice (no, not this Wednesday’s, but the one that will come in May/June!!), I’ve been listening to Marquee Moon, the debut album by Television. Released in 1977, it is considered one of the early US punk releases, although it is on the mellower side.

Now if that’s how punk is supposed to sound, I’d say I like it a whole lot better than what I thought punk was. Never heard it before but what a terrific guitar album.
A great album. I’m no expert but wouldn’t call it punk
 
Marquee Moon was a great debut album,i always considered them to be more
‘New Wave’ than punk like the Talking Heads and later Blondie , who we all part of the CBGBS scene in NY.
Interesting that the Steve Forbert book I was telling you about spends a lot of time talking about the New York scene and CBGBs. You wouldn’t necessarily associate him with that scene, but I suppose he was in the right place at the right time.

Funny that CBGB stands for Country Bluegrass and Blues yet is associated with the NY punk scene.
 
I was never that into The Who although I’ve got both Tommy and Quadraphenia in my collection but as others have already said they have some great tracks on them but quite a few fillers, they have recorded some fantastic songs though.I don’t get the comparison to The Jam other than they were both supposedly’Mod’ bands.The Who are a ledgendary classic rock band and The Jam a sort of Punk/New Wave band but like The Stranglers it was more the fact they were around in that era, and I was a big fan of both.
The punk revolution was very much of my time , I loved the music but didn’t follow the culture.Me and my mate would go and watch all the bands most of which were shite apart from the more well known ones, but Punk allowed anyone to form a band even if they couldn’t play a note, case in point was Slaughter and the Dogs a group of lads we knew from Bowie and Mott the Hoople gigs, at the time they had very little talent but got Mick Ronson to produce their first album.One of my regrets is that I didn’t follow their path and form a band back then.

As far as the best UK Punk song goes it has to be ‘Anarchy in the Uk’ for me,I went straight out and bought the single , there’s was just nothing like it at the time.As for US punk I’m not sure when that started perhaps Foggy can give me a steer, IMHO The MC5 and The Stooges were the first US punk bands?
I think as well as the VU and The ‘Mats’ the MC5 were a big influence on The Pixies.
While I love AITUK and God Save The Queen and that whole record, I think the UK “punk” record from the birth that I like best is Wire’s Pink Flag which came out basically exactly when Never Mind The Bollocks did.

I do think MC5 and The Stooges get a lot of credit, and should, but so should The Ramones. Maybe New York Dolls too.
 
You say underrated but critics loved it and have put it high on the list of greatest albums, to the extent I’d say it could be deemed overrated. It is a very good album in my view.
It’s funny that I’ve tried but never really gotten into it, and well after the fact too. It’s definitely not punk. It’s anti-punk even. In 77 I was still listening to bands like AC/DC and Heart — until Talking Heads 77 came out, which is probably the record that expanded my horizons most back then.
 
Completely agree.

You can argue using your own criteria and own scoring mechanisms but even then you are trying to impress your own truth about the music on someone else. So if they don’t agree with you they lack the ability to be detached?

Can you say more about what you mean. If someone simply says they love a piece of music or hate it and mark it accordingly should folk ‘get riled’ because it lacks context or thought? If that’s what you mean then I don’t agree.
I think as long as posters are honest then any review, be it a few words or Charles Sharr Murray standard is perfectly valid.

You clearly have an analytical mind that likes to dissect music and that is fascinating and adds much to this thread. Not everyone is wired like that though.

Charles Shaar Murray - the pretentious prince of the psuedo-intellectual knob jockeys that inhabited the NME! He coould write purty though.
 
You say underrated but critics loved it and have put it high on the list of greatest albums, to the extent I’d say it could be deemed overrated. It is a very good album in my view.
Music critics as a rule — especially NY-based ones — love pretty much anyone who smacks remotely of the VU IMO. Television definitely has a bit of VU coursing through their tunes. They always reminded me more of a Talking Heads jam band (though MM was pre-Heads). The Heads are dancier though; always preferred them, though I do understand why people love TV and especially MM. Verlaine is a fun, quirky guitarist to listen to.
 
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Music critics as a rule — especially NY-based ones — love pretty much anyone who smacks remotely of the VU IMO. Television definitely has a bit of VU coursing through their tunes. They always reminded me more of a Talking Heads jam band (though MM was pre-Heads). The Heads are dancier though; always preferred them, though I do understand why people love TV and especially MM. Verlaine is a fun, quirky guitarist to listen to.
Interesting. The reason I listened to Marquee Moon was because of the other guitarist, Richard Lloyd. Reading some of the reviews and general comments about Television, it's the twin guitars of Verlaine and Lloyd that defined their sound.
 
I preferred Sounds but I read NME for the longest stretch - at one point I was reading NME, Sounds and Melody Maker every week.

I quite liked Max Bell because he was a big Blue Oyster Cult fan.
I did exactly the same mate. Dropped Sounds first and then MM. NME was the last to go because at the time I thought the writing better. I agree with you re CSM though. He was a prick at times but I still enjoyed reading most of his articles. I think it was he that described Queens debut album as exciting as a bucket of cold piss. Or something similar.
 
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Had another 'voluntary' listen to this today, because, well there is time. With the conments in mind. The singing really doesnt bother me. Drums and base are the stars of all the song though.
 
Had another 'voluntary' listen to this today, because, well there is time. With the conments in mind. The singing really doesnt bother me. Drums and base are the stars of all the song though.
Are you wavering between a 3 and a 4 ;)
 
Are you wavering between a 3 and a 4 ;)

No, but could possibly upgrade to a 7. If nothing else so there is a clear distinction that I enjoyed this on the whole more than the Breeders.

Also, listened to BS again since it came up in discussion with you. Still gives the same thrills as 20 years ago.
Worth you trying the Emo Diaries I mentioned, the first two volumes ay least for a nostalgia mood throwback bud.
 
Pixies – Doolittle (AKA We need to talk about Francis)

Quite a few positives for me on this one. When GD announced this as his pick, I said something along the lines that I wasn’t taken with them at the time partly because I thought Black Francis was a bit of a knob, though I couldn’t remember why I thought that. I also said it would allow me to revisit the fact that I fondly remember Sonic Youth from that time but not Pixies.

I no longer think he’s a bit of a knob. I do however think he is possibly a bit high on his own supply and maybe his own worst enemy at times but more of that in a moment.

Overall this was more melodic than I remember them which is a good thing in my view. The album has a really strong start imo. I think the first three tracks are a trio of good songs showcasing different aspects of the band. I agree with GD that Debaser is a great opening track for an album, and I can easily imagine if you were young and just getting into music you would be excited when you put this on for the first time. My own benchmark for an album that initially blew my mind when I was younger is Unknown Pleasures and I don’t think we are in that territory, but I can see how exciting this could be.

After this I do think it becomes a bit uneven and occasionally begins to unravel a bit for me. The primary reason is that both Franks lyrics and delivery began to grate on me ever so slightly. I liked Crublue1 's review and I thought the point about having an instrumental track was a good one. I would have appreciated it because there were points in the album where I felt he was getting in the way of a decent tune being driven nicely at the bottom end and to have a rest from him for a track would probably have been helpful from a pacing perspective.

The area where I disagree with Crublue1 is the lyrical sophistication compared to James Blunt! Don’t get me wrong I’m not about to risk a permaban by defending Mr Blunt (though the internet does tell me he stopped us all from being annihilated in WW3 right?). However, I’m not sure I see a massive qualitative improvement between what seems to me Frank’s half-finished ideas and Blunt’s music for stalkers output. I had a bit of a read about the composition of Monkey and what he’s saying there; by his own admission he got a bit of info on Hebrew Numerology from a mate and then just couldn’t be arsed to go much further (in fairness no Google in those days!) but he was comfortable that the vague ideas he had formed were sufficient. I’m ok with elliptical and thematic lyrics and overall the song is good but I don’t think it means its particularly strong or insightful lyrically and I think that happens on a number of occasions, he has an interesting theme but then doesn’t run with it enough.

Then we have the vocal delivery. I’m not adverse to a bit of broader sonic experimentation and the avant-garde, I mean I even bought Big Science when it came out :-) At times I think these vocal experiments work nicely (Tame) and at other points I think they don’t (Dead) but what frustrated me was he seemed to be off in his own little world without editing himself. It felt at times as if it was purely for the amusement/satisfaction of Frank.

These two things meant that as the album progressed it felt like I was wandering into a bit of a miasma at times. Silver Bullet has a bit of a ‘Boot Hill’ vibe and to be honest on a couple of the listens by then that’s where I felt things were heading, however Gouge revived things nicely to deliver a decent ending. It’s not that there wasn’t good stuff in the middle, its just that it was a bit all over the shop.

Something strange happened on about my fourth listen, as I got to No 13 Baby, I had this sudden urge to turn it off and listen to Infected by The The for the first time in at least 5 years, which I duly did. Now whether you like Matt Johnson’s music or not, I’ve always thought he was capable of clearly articulating what he wanted to say, and I wonder whether jumping to that album in particular, which in my view is totally coherent, was a reaction to something that I felt wasn’t that coherent?

If this all sounds like I’m laying into Frank a bit, it’s more frustration that he never quite finishes the job or as I say gets a bit high on his own supply. I think Fog suggested that letting Kim Deal take the reins a bit more would have been good and that makes lots of sense to me. I’d also be interested to understand better Gil Norton’s role and the degree to which he was/wasn’t able to steer the ship a bit.

Yesterday I had a listen to their latest, Doggerel, and a couple of things struck me. Firstly, the opening lyrics on the first track Nomatterday gave me a rye smile…

You know, I know that you don't really hate me
But I suppose that I probably irritate you
And furthermore, I know that I can't relate to you
I'll say I'm sorry in advance for all of my hyperbole


It was like he’d overheard some of my thoughts whilst listening to Doolittle! I also thought it was in some ways a more evenly constructed album than Doolittle and some of the inability to self-edit seemed to have been curbed. But here’s the rub, in doing that it didn’t reach any of the heights that Doolittle did. So, I suppose as multiple people have already said it is very much a case of taking the rough with the smooth with Pixies but fair play to him and them for still going at with some integrity 30 odd years on.

On the Sonic Youth front I retain that preference and have been playing them again a fair bit alongside this album. I think the reason for the preference is probably because I think they were also different but by the time of stuff like Daydream Nation and Goo they were less into figuring out stuff and more into fully formed thoughts and songs and used a side project for other stuff. In fairness I also had a bit of a thing for Kim Gordon too, who btw is going to turn 70 this year; how did that happen??

Anyway, I was going to give this 6 on the basis I was minded to be a less generous scorer this year. But I’ve decided I like being generous and yesterday’s win has me in a good mood too so it’s a solid 7/10 for me. As others have said, all the debate, both specific and tangential, tells us that this was a great pick by GD.
 

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