Great review! Interesting you mention Matt Johnson, I’m a huge fan. I’ll have to dig out infected, although I’ve been listening to Soul Mining a lot recently - now that is a cracking album!Pixies – Doolittle (AKA We need to talk about Francis)
Quite a few positives for me on this one. When GD announced this as his pick, I said something along the lines that I wasn’t taken with them at the time partly because I thought Black Francis was a bit of a knob, though I couldn’t remember why I thought that. I also said it would allow me to revisit the fact that I fondly remember Sonic Youth from that time but not Pixies.
I no longer think he’s a bit of a knob. I do however think he is possibly a bit high on his own supply and maybe his own worst enemy at times but more of that in a moment.
Overall this was more melodic than I remember them which is a good thing in my view. The album has a really strong start imo. I think the first three tracks are a trio of good songs showcasing different aspects of the band. I agree with GD that Debaser is a great opening track for an album, and I can easily imagine if you were young and just getting into music you would be excited when you put this on for the first time. My own benchmark for an album that initially blew my mind when I was younger is Unknown Pleasures and I don’t think we are in that territory, but I can see how exciting this could be.
After this I do think it becomes a bit uneven and occasionally begins to unravel a bit for me. The primary reason is that both Franks lyrics and delivery began to grate on me ever so slightly. I liked Crublue1 's review and I thought the point about having an instrumental track was a good one. I would have appreciated it because there were points in the album where I felt he was getting in the way of a decent tune being driven nicely at the bottom end and to have a rest from him for a track would probably have been helpful from a pacing perspective.
The area where I disagree with Crublue1 is the lyrical sophistication compared to James Blunt! Don’t get me wrong I’m not about to risk a permaban by defending Mr Blunt (though the internet does tell me he stopped us all from being annihilated in WW3 right?). However, I’m not sure I see a massive qualitative improvement between what seems to me Frank’s half-finished ideas and Blunt’s music for stalkers output. I had a bit of a read about the composition of Monkey and what he’s saying there; by his own admission he got a bit of info on Hebrew Numerology from a mate and then just couldn’t be arsed to go much further (in fairness no Google in those days!) but he was comfortable that the vague ideas he had formed were sufficient. I’m ok with elliptical and thematic lyrics and overall the song is good but I don’t think it means its particularly strong or insightful lyrically and I think that happens on a number of occasions, he has an interesting theme but then doesn’t run with it enough.
Then we have the vocal delivery. I’m not adverse to a bit of broader sonic experimentation and the avant-garde, I mean I even bought Big Science when it came out :-) At times I think these vocal experiments work nicely (Tame) and at other points I think they don’t (Dead) but what frustrated me was he seemed to be off in his own little world without editing himself. It felt at times as if it was purely for the amusement/satisfaction of Frank.
These two things meant that as the album progressed it felt like I was wandering into a bit of a miasma at times. Silver Bullet has a bit of a ‘Boot Hill’ vibe and to be honest on a couple of the listens by then that’s where I felt things were heading, however Gouge revived things nicely to deliver a decent ending. It’s not that there wasn’t good stuff in the middle, its just that it was a bit all over the shop.
Something strange happened on about my fourth listen, as I got to No 13 Baby, I had this sudden urge to turn it off and listen to Infected by The The for the first time in at least 5 years, which I duly did. Now whether you like Matt Johnson’s music or not, I’ve always thought he was capable of clearly articulating what he wanted to say, and I wonder whether jumping to that album in particular, which in my view is totally coherent, was a reaction to something that I felt wasn’t that coherent?
If this all sounds like I’m laying into Frank a bit, it’s more frustration that he never quite finishes the job or as I say gets a bit high on his own supply. I think Fog suggested that letting Kim Deal take the reins a bit more would have been good and that makes lots of sense to me. I’d also be interested to understand better Gil Norton’s role and the degree to which he was/wasn’t able to steer the ship a bit.
Yesterday I had a listen to their latest, Doggerel, and a couple of things struck me. Firstly, the opening lyrics on the first track Nomatterday gave me a rye smile…
You know, I know that you don't really hate me
But I suppose that I probably irritate you
And furthermore, I know that I can't relate to you
I'll say I'm sorry in advance for all of my hyperbole
It was like he’d overheard some of my thoughts whilst listening to Doolittle! I also thought it was in some ways a more evenly constructed album than Doolittle and some of the inability to self-edit seemed to have been curbed. But here’s the rub, in doing that it didn’t reach any of the heights that Doolittle did. So, I suppose as multiple people have already said it is very much a case of taking the rough with the smooth with Pixies but fair play to him and them for still going at with some integrity 30 odd years on.
On the Sonic Youth front I retain that preference and have been playing them again a fair bit alongside this album. I think the reason for the preference is probably because I think they were also different but by the time of stuff like Daydream Nation and Goo they were less into figuring out stuff and more into fully formed thoughts and songs and used a side project for other stuff. In fairness I also had a bit of a thing for Kim Gordon too, who btw is going to turn 70 this year; how did that happen??
Anyway, I was going to give this 6 on the basis I was minded to be a less generous scorer this year. But I’ve decided I like being generous and yesterday’s win has me in a good mood too so it’s a solid 7/10 for me. As others have said, all the debate, both specific and tangential, tells us that this was a great pick by GD.
Thanks for the reminder on Emo Diaries, just listening now. Sidetracked myself on BS!No, but could possibly upgrade to a 7. If nothing else so there is a clear distinction that I enjoyed this on the whole more than the Breeders.
Also, listened to BS again since it came up in discussion with you. Still gives the same thrills as 20 years ago.
Worth you trying the Emo Diaries I mentioned, the first two volumes ay least for a nostalgia mood throwback bud.
Hell of a review mate.Pixies – Doolittle (AKA We need to talk about Francis)
Quite a few positives for me on this one. When GD announced this as his pick, I said something along the lines that I wasn’t taken with them at the time partly because I thought Black Francis was a bit of a knob, though I couldn’t remember why I thought that. I also said it would allow me to revisit the fact that I fondly remember Sonic Youth from that time but not Pixies.
I no longer think he’s a bit of a knob. I do however think he is possibly a bit high on his own supply and maybe his own worst enemy at times but more of that in a moment.
Overall this was more melodic than I remember them which is a good thing in my view. The album has a really strong start imo. I think the first three tracks are a trio of good songs showcasing different aspects of the band. I agree with GD that Debaser is a great opening track for an album, and I can easily imagine if you were young and just getting into music you would be excited when you put this on for the first time. My own benchmark for an album that initially blew my mind when I was younger is Unknown Pleasures and I don’t think we are in that territory, but I can see how exciting this could be.
After this I do think it becomes a bit uneven and occasionally begins to unravel a bit for me. The primary reason is that both Franks lyrics and delivery began to grate on me ever so slightly. I liked Crublue1 's review and I thought the point about having an instrumental track was a good one. I would have appreciated it because there were points in the album where I felt he was getting in the way of a decent tune being driven nicely at the bottom end and to have a rest from him for a track would probably have been helpful from a pacing perspective.
The area where I disagree with Crublue1 is the lyrical sophistication compared to James Blunt! Don’t get me wrong I’m not about to risk a permaban by defending Mr Blunt (though the internet does tell me he stopped us all from being annihilated in WW3 right?). However, I’m not sure I see a massive qualitative improvement between what seems to me Frank’s half-finished ideas and Blunt’s music for stalkers output. I had a bit of a read about the composition of Monkey and what he’s saying there; by his own admission he got a bit of info on Hebrew Numerology from a mate and then just couldn’t be arsed to go much further (in fairness no Google in those days!) but he was comfortable that the vague ideas he had formed were sufficient. I’m ok with elliptical and thematic lyrics and overall the song is good but I don’t think it means its particularly strong or insightful lyrically and I think that happens on a number of occasions, he has an interesting theme but then doesn’t run with it enough.
Then we have the vocal delivery. I’m not adverse to a bit of broader sonic experimentation and the avant-garde, I mean I even bought Big Science when it came out :-) At times I think these vocal experiments work nicely (Tame) and at other points I think they don’t (Dead) but what frustrated me was he seemed to be off in his own little world without editing himself. It felt at times as if it was purely for the amusement/satisfaction of Frank.
These two things meant that as the album progressed it felt like I was wandering into a bit of a miasma at times. Silver Bullet has a bit of a ‘Boot Hill’ vibe and to be honest on a couple of the listens by then that’s where I felt things were heading, however Gouge revived things nicely to deliver a decent ending. It’s not that there wasn’t good stuff in the middle, its just that it was a bit all over the shop.
Something strange happened on about my fourth listen, as I got to No 13 Baby, I had this sudden urge to turn it off and listen to Infected by The The for the first time in at least 5 years, which I duly did. Now whether you like Matt Johnson’s music or not, I’ve always thought he was capable of clearly articulating what he wanted to say, and I wonder whether jumping to that album in particular, which in my view is totally coherent, was a reaction to something that I felt wasn’t that coherent?
If this all sounds like I’m laying into Frank a bit, it’s more frustration that he never quite finishes the job or as I say gets a bit high on his own supply. I think Fog suggested that letting Kim Deal take the reins a bit more would have been good and that makes lots of sense to me. I’d also be interested to understand better Gil Norton’s role and the degree to which he was/wasn’t able to steer the ship a bit.
Yesterday I had a listen to their latest, Doggerel, and a couple of things struck me. Firstly, the opening lyrics on the first track Nomatterday gave me a rye smile…
You know, I know that you don't really hate me
But I suppose that I probably irritate you
And furthermore, I know that I can't relate to you
I'll say I'm sorry in advance for all of my hyperbole
It was like he’d overheard some of my thoughts whilst listening to Doolittle! I also thought it was in some ways a more evenly constructed album than Doolittle and some of the inability to self-edit seemed to have been curbed. But here’s the rub, in doing that it didn’t reach any of the heights that Doolittle did. So, I suppose as multiple people have already said it is very much a case of taking the rough with the smooth with Pixies but fair play to him and them for still going at with some integrity 30 odd years on.
On the Sonic Youth front I retain that preference and have been playing them again a fair bit alongside this album. I think the reason for the preference is probably because I think they were also different but by the time of stuff like Daydream Nation and Goo they were less into figuring out stuff and more into fully formed thoughts and songs and used a side project for other stuff. In fairness I also had a bit of a thing for Kim Gordon too, who btw is going to turn 70 this year; how did that happen??
Anyway, I was going to give this 6 on the basis I was minded to be a less generous scorer this year. But I’ve decided I like being generous and yesterday’s win has me in a good mood too so it’s a solid 7/10 for me. As others have said, all the debate, both specific and tangential, tells us that this was a great pick by GD.
Great review! Interesting you mention Matt Johnson, I’m a huge fan. I’ll have to dig out infected, although I’ve been listening to Soul Mining a lot recently - now that is a cracking album!
I did exactly the same mate. Dropped Sounds first and then MM. NME was the last to go because at the time I thought the writing better. I agree with you re CSM though. He was a prick at times but I still enjoyed reading most of his articles. I think it was he that described Queens debut album as exciting as a bucket of cold piss. Or something similar.
I think he was.Was he the one responsible for the interview with Freddie that was famoulsy captioned Is this man a prat?
Hell of a review mate.
bring it on :-)My main foil for discussing stuff like this has retired and buggered off to the Yorkshire coast so I'm afraid you lot cop for my ramblings now.
Sign him/her up as a BM member, the more the merrier :)My main foil for discussing stuff like this has retired and buggered off to the Yorkshire coast so I'm afraid you lot cop for my ramblings now.
Sign him/her up as a BM member, the more the merrier :)
just to make my boring point again
picking a band that's known, or fairly known - makes the conversation and reviews so much more engaging - this has been one of the best picks for debate. not to put off anyone planning a unknown hidden gem.
Great review mate!Pixies – Doolittle (AKA We need to talk about Francis)
Quite a few positives for me on this one. When GD announced this as his pick, I said something along the lines that I wasn’t taken with them at the time partly because I thought Black Francis was a bit of a knob, though I couldn’t remember why I thought that. I also said it would allow me to revisit the fact that I fondly remember Sonic Youth from that time but not Pixies.
I no longer think he’s a bit of a knob. I do however think he is possibly a bit high on his own supply and maybe his own worst enemy at times but more of that in a moment.
Overall this was more melodic than I remember them which is a good thing in my view. The album has a really strong start imo. I think the first three tracks are a trio of good songs showcasing different aspects of the band. I agree with GD that Debaser is a great opening track for an album, and I can easily imagine if you were young and just getting into music you would be excited when you put this on for the first time. My own benchmark for an album that initially blew my mind when I was younger is Unknown Pleasures and I don’t think we are in that territory, but I can see how exciting this could be.
After this I do think it becomes a bit uneven and occasionally begins to unravel a bit for me. The primary reason is that both Franks lyrics and delivery began to grate on me ever so slightly. I liked Crublue1 's review and I thought the point about having an instrumental track was a good one. I would have appreciated it because there were points in the album where I felt he was getting in the way of a decent tune being driven nicely at the bottom end and to have a rest from him for a track would probably have been helpful from a pacing perspective.
The area where I disagree with Crublue1 is the lyrical sophistication compared to James Blunt! Don’t get me wrong I’m not about to risk a permaban by defending Mr Blunt (though the internet does tell me he stopped us all from being annihilated in WW3 right?). However, I’m not sure I see a massive qualitative improvement between what seems to me Frank’s half-finished ideas and Blunt’s music for stalkers output. I had a bit of a read about the composition of Monkey and what he’s saying there; by his own admission he got a bit of info on Hebrew Numerology from a mate and then just couldn’t be arsed to go much further (in fairness no Google in those days!) but he was comfortable that the vague ideas he had formed were sufficient. I’m ok with elliptical and thematic lyrics and overall the song is good but I don’t think it means its particularly strong or insightful lyrically and I think that happens on a number of occasions, he has an interesting theme but then doesn’t run with it enough.
Then we have the vocal delivery. I’m not adverse to a bit of broader sonic experimentation and the avant-garde, I mean I even bought Big Science when it came out :-) At times I think these vocal experiments work nicely (Tame) and at other points I think they don’t (Dead) but what frustrated me was he seemed to be off in his own little world without editing himself. It felt at times as if it was purely for the amusement/satisfaction of Frank.
These two things meant that as the album progressed it felt like I was wandering into a bit of a miasma at times. Silver Bullet has a bit of a ‘Boot Hill’ vibe and to be honest on a couple of the listens by then that’s where I felt things were heading, however Gouge revived things nicely to deliver a decent ending. It’s not that there wasn’t good stuff in the middle, its just that it was a bit all over the shop.
Something strange happened on about my fourth listen, as I got to No 13 Baby, I had this sudden urge to turn it off and listen to Infected by The The for the first time in at least 5 years, which I duly did. Now whether you like Matt Johnson’s music or not, I’ve always thought he was capable of clearly articulating what he wanted to say, and I wonder whether jumping to that album in particular, which in my view is totally coherent, was a reaction to something that I felt wasn’t that coherent?
If this all sounds like I’m laying into Frank a bit, it’s more frustration that he never quite finishes the job or as I say gets a bit high on his own supply. I think Fog suggested that letting Kim Deal take the reins a bit more would have been good and that makes lots of sense to me. I’d also be interested to understand better Gil Norton’s role and the degree to which he was/wasn’t able to steer the ship a bit.
Yesterday I had a listen to their latest, Doggerel, and a couple of things struck me. Firstly, the opening lyrics on the first track Nomatterday gave me a rye smile…
You know, I know that you don't really hate me
But I suppose that I probably irritate you
And furthermore, I know that I can't relate to you
I'll say I'm sorry in advance for all of my hyperbole
It was like he’d overheard some of my thoughts whilst listening to Doolittle! I also thought it was in some ways a more evenly constructed album than Doolittle and some of the inability to self-edit seemed to have been curbed. But here’s the rub, in doing that it didn’t reach any of the heights that Doolittle did. So, I suppose as multiple people have already said it is very much a case of taking the rough with the smooth with Pixies but fair play to him and them for still going at with some integrity 30 odd years on.
On the Sonic Youth front I retain that preference and have been playing them again a fair bit alongside this album. I think the reason for the preference is probably because I think they were also different but by the time of stuff like Daydream Nation and Goo they were less into figuring out stuff and more into fully formed thoughts and songs and used a side project for other stuff. In fairness I also had a bit of a thing for Kim Gordon too, who btw is going to turn 70 this year; how did that happen??
Anyway, I was going to give this 6 on the basis I was minded to be a less generous scorer this year. But I’ve decided I like being generous and yesterday’s win has me in a good mood too so it’s a solid 7/10 for me. As others have said, all the debate, both specific and tangential, tells us that this was a great pick by GD.
I think this is true but I have enjoyed getting to know bands I didn't know too. The best is mixing them up -- one week with a new one, one week an oldie (I didn't love that first 10cc record that much but it was great to hear a "classic" band I hadn't had time for except for the hits), one week a classic, one week obscure -- keeps things fresh.just to make my boring point again
picking a band that's known, or fairly known - makes the conversation and reviews so much more engaging - this has been one of the best picks for debate. not to put off anyone planning a unknown hidden gem.
I think this is true but I have enjoyed getting to know bands I didn't know too. The best is mixing them up -- one week with a new one, one week an oldie (I didn't love that first 10cc record that much but it was great to hear a "classic" band I hadn't had time for except for the hits), one week a classic, one week obscure -- keeps things fresh.
I think this is true but I have enjoyed getting to know bands I didn't know too. The best is mixing them up -- one week with a new one, one week an oldie (I didn't love that first 10cc record that much but it was great to hear a "classic" band I hadn't had time for except for the hits), one week a classic, one week obscure -- keeps things fresh.
Indeed! But as has been pointed out -- there are many, many critics' lists of "great" records, and many huge bands too, so I kind of think as "classics" from those categories.One man's classic is another man's obscure, and all that.
Precisely, me too. Being forced to listen to that Lucinda Williams record -- which I thought was outstanding -- and knowing critics adored it already but not having had time for it up til then was a lot of fun.we are missing a lot of genres and I think the Larkin list has more of a mix... but I'm loving this thread and any nomination is fine by me - personal preference is a band/artist pick that are big and somehne how skipped by me - Pixies being one of them
Plus I got you into The Drive By Truckers as well.Precisely, me too. Being forced to listen to that Lucinda Williams record -- which I thought was outstanding -- and knowing critics adored it already but not having had time for it up til then was a lot of fun.
we are missing a lot of genres and I think the Larkin list has more of a mix... but I'm loving this thread and any nomination is fine by me - personal preference is a band/artist pick that are big and somehow skipped me by - Pixies being one of them