Shamima Begum

domalino said:
Anyone who has an Irish grandparent, anyone who is jewish, any second generation immigrant and any dual citizen can now have their British citizenship summarily revoked, and you can't win an appeal on the merits of the case (ie it doesn't matter if you prove their reasoning to remove it was wrong), as long as they follow the right procedure - which since 2022 doesn't even involve notifying you.

And that power now is in the hands of Suella Braverman. Who is currently trying to rip up the Human Rights Act. So that'll get rid of our right to not be tortured, right to a fair trial with a jury, right to freedom of expression, right to assemble, right to marry and not be discriminated against...
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Anyone who is Jewish, is that true?

I’m actually from a Jewish family but don’t practice it, but older generations do

But being Jewish isn’t a nationality, it’s a religion, so how does that work? there was about 100-200k that settled in the UK in the late 1800’s. So a fair few Jewish people today will be descendants of those that settled here, meaning many peoples grandparents were born here …those grandparents could be second or third generation British born Jews.

So you’re telling me someone who might a be 5th generation British born Jewish person with 3rd generation British born grandparents can just have their citizenship revoked?

Doesn’t sound correct to me. I’m not saying you are wrong, it’s just a genuine question.
 
Crooked_rain said:
Anyone who is Jewish, is that true?

I’m actually from a Jewish family but don’t practice it, but older generations do

But being Jewish isn’t a nationality, it’s a religion, so how does that work? there was about 100-200k that settled in the UK in the late 1800’s. So a fair few Jewish people today will be descendants of those that settled here, meaning many peoples grandparents were born here …those grandparents could be second or third generation British born Jews.

So you’re telling me someone who might a be 5th generation British born Jewish person with 3rd generation British born grandparents can just have their citizenship revoked?

Doesn’t sound correct to me. I’m not saying you are wrong, it’s just a genuine question.
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“Every Jew in the world has the unrestricted right to Israeli citizenship”, in the same way people with Bangladeshi parents can claim Bangladeshi citizenship until they are 21.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I wouldn’t begin to understand the mental anguish a child experiences after being trafficked and raped repeatedly.
But I genuinely believe that we, as a society, should recognise that being trafficked and abused whilst a child, is likely to have a severe psychological trauma on the victim and lead them to speak and act in ways that us lucky people who haven’t been subjected to such horrendous abuse may initially struggle to comprehend.
She is an easy target for angry, middle aged, knuckle draggers who jump on the chance to lay into an abused child. That is what she was, and it is undeniable that the abuse she was subjected to must have left a mark on her.

We have failed her and we must make up for that.
Bring the girl home, offer her succour, give her a robust defence and after she has served her sentence (assuming she is in actual fact guilty of any crime) look after her.
Given the national hysteria about this poor girl, that may well look like a change of identity, and a lifetime of financial and emotional support.
It’s the least we owe her.
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Can you show us the large detailed poll you conducted advising who and who doesn't want her in the country. Please also include your detailed demographic study on the subject.

We all look forward to clearing this up but in the meantime without the above it will have to be presumed that you are making shit up.

Thanks in advance.


Ps don't leave the house without putting out the candles, they're a fire hazard.
 
mexico1970 said:
She isn't the first to be "Excommunicated" though is she mate? She should be tried in the country where she committed the crimes and we should try our best to facilitate for that to happen.

If she gets away from the hangman there then we should put her on trial here for crimes committed here.
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I'll be the first to admit that I don't know anything about the other cases but a few I have read about have had dual citizenship so to me that is a bit different. Have any of them been left stateless? I think the issue for me is that I disagree with making her stateless so feel she is a British citizen and then should be tried here. I feel nothing but contempt for her but the fact that this case has been used for political reasons by all parties and the issues that come with it worry me.
 
She was born here and is a citizen, either the country she has commited a crime tries her and imprisons here or if that area is presently without a functioning governmental departmemts and judicary she should be repatriated and tried here.

anything else is for publicity not justice
 
kalouk said:
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know anything about the other cases but a few I have read about have had dual citizenship so to me that is a bit different. Have any of them been left stateless? I think the issue for me is that I disagree with making her stateless so feel she is a British citizen and then should be tried here. I feel nothing but contempt for her but the fact that this case has been used for political reasons by all parties and the issues that come with it worry me.
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Mate at least you have shown your concerns rather than try to insult other people, imagine describing her as a poor little girl that we should look after financially for the rest of her life.

Like you I am not in receipt of the facts and I am presuming the govt and courts do and have made a judgement, she's probably a citizen or ex citizen of a failed state namely the Islamic state she ran off to, I for one hope she enjoys her new found self exile.
 
mexico1970 said:
She committed the crimes there not here, there shouldn't be a problem with her being punished there. Oh BTW, we are nothing like Bahrain.
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There is though because Syria isn’t a functioning country. We are like them in terms of our refusal to repatriate and trial at home like everyone else is doing.
 
meltonblue said:
There is though because Syria isn’t a functioning country. We are like them in terms of our refusal to repatriate and trial at home like everyone else is doing.
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People with more facts than we have at hand have made their decision, this thread has more in common with the Madeline McCann thread than anything sensible.

To many sleuths not enough cold hard facts.
 
mexico1970 said:
People with more facts than we have at hand have made their decision, this thread has more in common with the Madeline McCann thread than anything sensible.

To many sleuths not enough cold hard facts.
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That’s a different argument though, that’s about whether Javid had the right to remove her citizenship for the reasons he did and the court found that he did.

Doesn’t mean we’re going to leave everyone else over there or can do that to everyone though.
 
The law has been influenced by politics. Again. See the influence on the Planning system. I agree that she came over as super dodgy in the documentary but that is for the law to prosecute, or not here.
 
kalouk said:
I admit I am only going off the media etc which isn't always a good idea granted but the general agreement between countries seems to be that they take these people back and try them which I agree with.
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She is in a prison camp awaiting trial in theory

www.arabnews.com

Shamima Begum ‘fears she will be executed’ as she faces trial in Syria

LONDON: Daesh bride Shamima Begum fears she will be executed after being told she is to stand trial for terror offenses, reports have stated. Begum, who fled the UK at the age of 15 to join Daesh, was stripped of her citizenship in February 2021 and has been unable to return to the country...
www.arabnews.com www.arabnews.com
 
mexico1970 said:
Mate at least you have shown your concerns rather than try to insult other people, imagine describing her as a poor little girl that we should look after financially for the rest of her life.

Like you I am not in receipt of the facts and I am presuming the govt and courts do and have made a judgement, she's probably a citizen or ex citizen of a failed state namely the Islamic state she ran off to, I for one hope she enjoys her new found self exile.
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You still seem to be missing the point that most people are making. Irrespective of opinions of Begum herself (and my opinion is far from positive), and irrespective of the decision of Supreme Court that what the Home Secretary did was technically legal, it doesn’t change the fact that we as a country are trying to fob off our responsibility to a third country that has absolutely nothing to do with it at all apart from a UK court’s interpretation of their own law that they themselves don’t agree with. You can bet that if it was a country that we needed more than they need us we wouldn’t be taking the piss like this.
 
west didsblue said:
You still seem to be missing the point that most people are making. Irrespective of opinions of Begum herself (and my opinion is far from positive), and irrespective of the decision of Supreme Court that what the Home Secretary did was technically legal, it doesn’t change the fact that we as a country are trying to fob off our responsibility to a third country that has absolutely nothing to do with it at all apart from a UK court’s interpretation of their own law that they themselves don’t agree with. You can bet that if it was a country that we needed more than they need us we wouldn’t be taking the piss like this.
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Made the point the other day, imagine if the Bangladeshis has done the same to us or even Canada with Jack Letts. The conservatives would be in uproar about it.

I’ve got no idea what they actually stand for any more, they’ve become that far detached from supposedly their own values.
 
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oldius said:
We don't jail without trial and full consideration of all of the evidence.
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She was supporting ISIS, that was illegal, not difficult to secure a conviction. She has never shown any remorse, she’s a bitter individual, sometimes you have to accept some people are beyond redemption if they can’t apologise and renounce violence especially where Children were targeted, what a twat, her, not you.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
I wouldn’t begin to understand the mental anguish a child experiences after being trafficked and raped repeatedly.
But I genuinely believe that we, as a society, should recognise that being trafficked and abused whilst a child, is likely to have a severe psychological trauma on the victim and lead them to speak and act in ways that us lucky people who haven’t been subjected to such horrendous abuse may initially struggle to comprehend.
She is an easy target for angry, middle aged, knuckle draggers who jump on the chance to lay into an abused child. That is what she was, and it is undeniable that the abuse she was subjected to must have left a mark on her.

We have failed her and we must make up for that.
Bring the girl home, offer her succour, give her a robust defence and after she has served her sentence (assuming she is in actual fact guilty of any crime) look after her.
Given the national hysteria about this poor girl, that may well look like a change of identity, and a lifetime of financial and emotional support.
It’s the least we owe her.
Click to expand...
Worst post of the 21st century so far.
 
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