The BBC | Tim Davie resigns as Director General over Trump documentary edit (p 187)

[I'm With Stupid]

12 from each game adds up to more than 20 mins

There have been games recently where the ball was in play for less than 45 minutes. It's probably tricky to find 12 minutes of highlights from that.

 

[Palerider]

Very helpful. Do you think all those people who come over on the boats qualify to seek asylum? I am not looking for an argument, just trying to understand how we should best deal with this particular issue which seems to be so divisive. One comment I heard recently was that instead of these people paying smugglers £5k (not sure if that figure is correct) why don't they just get on a flight which is far cheaper and start from there. Now it maybe that these people don't have a passport and can't obtain one, I have no idea. The real issue potentially is trying to crack the criminals who appear to making fortunes from some very vulnerable people.

I think you have summed up a very difficult problem exactly. Virtually everyone wants to help genuine cases but the problem is how to identify the genuine cases and how do you deal with the non genuine cases. Apart from the two lunatic extremes of 'let no one in' and 'let everyone in' then no one has come up with an answer. The trouble is that any attempt at a reasoned debate ends up toxic as the far right and far left seem to be very well represented on all political forums.

 

[paska]

The comparison I was making in my previous post was highlighting the low/high public profile of the poster, not the subject matter.

If I posted that the government were shit*, who would care? if Pep posted that on twitter then there would be a pile on from all areas of society.

This is why I think lineker should have exercised caution as he is undoubtedly high profile.

I am not sure how different our views are, but it seems to matter more to you so I will leave it there as I dont intend to offend anyone.

*not necessarily my real opinion, just an example to highlight my point, so no politically motivated replies please.

Subject does matter though. There’s a lot of difference talking about football as a manager or talking about politics. Pep has done both. Was there a massive pile on? Not really. If there was, would he have cared? No. Would he have been sacked? Also no.

 

[paska]

There have been games recently where the ball was in play for less than 45 minutes. It's probably tricky to find 12 minutes of highlights from that.

I’m not suggesting they do have 12 from each game, but it’s being mentioned as the max allowed from each game

 

[cheekybids]

How did it start, cheekybids? With dehumanising language and policies, such as we are seeing today. We have to be wary at all times not to follow down the same path.

In Nazi Germany it did. In the UK it started with a carpet bombing campaign totally destabilising countries & displacing thousands & creating migrants.

I don’t see the UK starting a propaganda campaign which moves along with people being starved, poisoned & placed in ovens.
However all sides labour & Tory have been responsible for migrants arriving with our foreign policy.

I’ve just seen Linekers latest tweet, it was very well put.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think you have summed up a very difficult problem exactly. Virtually everyone wants to help genuine cases but the problem is how to identify the genuine cases and how do you deal with the non genuine cases. Apart from the two lunatic extremes of 'let no one in' and 'let everyone in' then no one has come up with an answer. The trouble is that any attempt at a reasoned debate ends up toxic as the far right and far left seem to be very well represented on all political forums.

We make these judgements every week and have done for years. It isn’t that difficult. Most of the vetting on people has been done by other countries before they even reach the UK.

I have no idea why people insist there is no answer to the issue. You think people have just been claiming asylum in the last few years or something?

 

[meltonblue]

He didn’t need to bring 1930s Germany into it. The Nazis did the most evil things known & if he can’t get his point over better then thats why he’s been pulled. In my opinion he’s right to call out dehumanisation of migrants but ffs Nazis really.

I don’t really understand the issue with this. His point was all about the use of language by people in charge to demonise or alienate specific groups.

The most famous example of someone doing that was in 1930s Germany - it’s still a key part of the school curriculum. Yes he could have said “not dissimilar to that used during the reformation” but then most people would think what was that?!

It’s not comparing actions, it’s saying that there are similarities in the enablers.

 

[KPXBLN]

Very helpful. Do you think all those people who come over on the boats qualify to seek asylum? I am not looking for an argument, just trying to understand how we should best deal with this particular issue which seems to be so divisive. One comment I heard recently was that instead of these people paying smugglers £5k (not sure if that figure is correct) why don't they just get on a flight which is far cheaper and start from there. Now it maybe that these people don't have a passport and can't obtain one, I have no idea. The real issue potentially is trying to crack the criminals who appear to making fortunes from some very vulnerable people.

You're right that many people could hypothetically afford to fly, and apply for asylum at passport control in the UK. The problem is that they won't be allowed on a flight if they don't have a visa to enter. The absence of safe and legal routes is what compels people to make those dangerous journeys over land and sea.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

208 pages in and you can't spell his name, make an effort ffs

Linklater?

 

[Palerider]

We make these judgements every week and have done for years. It isn’t that difficult. Most of the vetting on people has been done by other countries before they even reach the UK.

I have no idea why people insist there is no answer to the issue. You think people have just been claiming asylum in the last few years or something?

It isn't that difficult? Seriously? It is extremely difficult and trying to trivialise the extent of that difficulty is not very helpful at all.

 

[Tolmie scores]

I don’t really understand the issue with this. His point was all about the use of language by people in charge to demonise or alienate specific groups.

The most famous example of someone doing that was in 1930s Germany - it’s still a key part of the school curriculum. Yes he could have said “not dissimilar to that used during the reformation” but then most people would think what was that?!

It’s not comparing actions, it’s saying that there are similarities in the enablers.

At last..just simpke common sense, people are adding so much sht that he must have written the longest tweet ever. It really psses me off as well that because you have a tendency to look out for others less fortunate, like Lineker who housed a refugee, get called a snowflake! The Jokers

 

[cheekybids]

I don’t really understand the issue with this. His point was all about the use of language by people in charge to demonise or alienate specific groups.

The most famous example of someone doing that was in 1930s Germany - it’s still a key part of the school curriculum. Yes he could have said “not dissimilar to that used during the reformation” but then most people would think what was that?!

It’s not comparing actions, it’s saying that there are similarities in the enablers.

I suppose it’s how you view the context, I see it as shock tactic & comparing with Nazi therefore “you nazi’s”. As you rightly describe the key part of the curriculum described the propaganda but equally it concentrated on the death camps. Icertainly wouldn’t cancel him but I’d say you’ve gone a bit far there.

I would say dehumanising has been used throughout history particularly by our empire. Let’s hope that the main issue of migrant welfare improves then I’ll be the first to say the shock tactic worked.

 

[hcblue95]

I think Lineker is perfectly entitled to express his opinions - whatever they are - and I‘m hugely against ”cancellation” of anyone or groupthink by coercion. But the BBC has to walk a tightrope of impartiality (apart from football !) because of its unique cultural position. Gary knew what he doing and that he was putting the BBC in an impossible position.
It matters not that he was “freelance”, if I employed an expensive leading consultant on a project who was then briefing against or publicly criticising it he’d be off the job in an instant. Words have consequences.
By Invoking Nazi Germany in his original statement and then gleefully doubling down in the following days, left the BBC little choice in the matter: it was a direct challenge - him basically squaring up to them.
I think there’s no way back for him but he’s a very wealthy man so no problem, but I’m sure the BBC will find a way over the coming week to move forward with putting shit punditry back on our screens.

The tories are not the BBC, however much they seem to want to be.

 

[BobKowalski]

It isn't that difficult? Seriously? It is extremely difficult and trying to trivialise the extent of that difficulty is not very helpful at all.

Nor is overstating the difficulty. We assess thousands of cases. Most of them are granted. Provide the resources to deal with the numbers. Open processing centres in France. Establish safe passage. Apply common sense and some humanity rather than bigoted political dogma. Basic stuff.

 

[Gabriel]

208 pages in and you can't spell his name, make an effort ffs

I believe that may be closer to the Mick Channon spelling.

 

[Palerider]

You're right that many people could hypothetically afford to fly, and apply for asylum at passport control in the UK. The problem is that they won't be allowed on a flight if they don't have a visa to enter. The absence of safe and legal routes is what compels people to make those dangerous journeys over land and sea.

An idea!!!! So playing devils advocate with this, I'm an asylum seeker, I travel to one of the major European countries but my preference is the UK. Why do I not just go to the British Embassy? Are you saying that currently the British Embassies don't do vetting?

 

[blueparrot]

I think you have summed up a very difficult problem exactly. Virtually everyone wants to help genuine cases but the problem is how to identify the genuine cases and how do you deal with the non genuine cases. Apart from the two lunatic extremes of 'let no one in' and 'let everyone in' then no one has come up with an answer. The trouble is that any attempt at a reasoned debate ends up toxic as the far right and far left seem to be very well represented on all political forums.

Thats nonsense we know exactly how to separate genuine from none genuine, we and other countries have been doing it for years, other countries still are. This government decided to dismantle the system, and the system for returning unsuccessful claims and are now overwhelmed with the backlog they created. They won’t go back to the system we had or one that would work for purely ideological reasons.

 

[kaz7]

I suppose it’s how you view the context, I see it as shock tactic & comparing with Nazi therefore “you nazi’s”. As you rightly describe the key part of the curriculum described the propaganda but equally it concentrated on the death camps. Icertainly wouldn’t cancel him but I’d say you’ve gone a bit far there.

I would say dehumanising has been used throughout history particularly by our empire. Let’s hope that the main issue of migrant welfare improves then I’ll be the first to say the shock tactic worked.

The tories are taking dehumanising language to the fore ,to whip up their base to get support for the next election , pulling up the drawbridge behind them, the three or so kids of immigrants in the cabinet , making the public hate anyone trying to come here , the days of this kind of language should be over, not continuing

 

[Palerider]

Thats nonsense we know exactly how to separate genuine from none genuine, we and other countries have been doing it for years, other countries still are. This government decided to dismantle the system, and the system for returning unsuccessful claims and are now overwhelmed with the backlog they created. They won’t go back to the system we had or one that would work for purely ideological reasons.

If that is so then I am fully with you. Why do Labour not just suggest that rather than going after criminal gangs?

 

[cheekybids]

The tories are taking dehumanising language to the fore ,to whip up their base to get support for the next election , pulling up the drawbridge behind them, the two or so kids of immigrants , making the public hate anyone trying to come here , the days of this kind of language should be over, not continuing

Agreed & the media siding with Lineker have been the worst part of it.