Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Blue Mist said:
What is equally as disgraceful is the rest of the world ignoring it. How can the UK, the US and Europe watch the daily massacres and say nothing.
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It just strikes me as add that Russian Special Military operation is baaaaaaaad and an Israeli Special Military operation is good. Both should be condemned in a right thinking world
 
west didsblue said:
Irrelevant to your point about a Holocaust, and totally misleading for numerous reasons.

In 1917 there were around 600,000 Palestinian Arabs living in the area now controlled by Israel, Hamas and the PA. Now there are around 7.5 million. That’s a growth rate of 2.4% per year compared to a world average of 1.3% per year.

By all means criticise the actions of the Israeli government and in many cases I’ll agree with you but calling it a Holocaust makes your whole argument look idiotic.
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Bringing up birth and death rates is really weird, veering into a sort of social darwinism/dehumanising rhetoric.
 
domalino said:
Bringing up birth and death rates is really weird.
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Not sure why.
If someone references a Palestinian “Holocaust”, I’d say it’s reasonable to check the facts about whether there’s been “destruction or slaughter on a mass scale” which is the dictionary definition, and checking population growth rates is one way to prove it.

It’s possible to be highly critical of the Israeli government and their appalling treatment of Palestinians without calling it a Holocaust and thereby diluting the argument with nonsense.
 
Don Karleone said:
What the Israeli government is doing in Jenin at the moment is a disgrace. Fuck off if you support this shit
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It’s genocide but because it’s a long, drawn-out takeover then they deem it moot.

Israel cause a conflict, have it reported that it’s Palestine, and then go in hard to displace more to take over the area.
 
The BBC reporting that there are 8 dead and 80 injured/wounded, 17 of which are in a critical condition. Thats a hell of a lot of terrorists, well done Israel.
 
Blue Mist said:
The BBC reporting that there are 8 dead and 80 injured/wounded, 17 of which are in a critical condition. Thats a hell of a lot of terrorists, well done Israel.
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Well, at least the area is free from those who lived there.

Another couple of houses, with pools, for those who want out of the US into Zion.
 
Blue Mist said:
What is equally as disgraceful is the rest of the world ignoring it. How can the UK, the US and Europe watch the daily massacres and say nothing.
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I reckon the simple answer is guilt.
It is the UK/France (Europe) & US that has caused this current situation with our actions on the break up of the Ottoman Empire.
I only had (and perhaps still only do) a very basic knowledge of the history of the Middle east until recently. I was always fairly pro Israeli. I imagine like many with that basic feeling of sympathy following the Holocaust and the feeling that they merited somewhere to be safe and avoid persecution.
So after my Spanish Civil war reading I followed it up with;
"A Line in the Sand" (James Barr)..... How the Brits & French carved up the region purely to enhance their own Empires
&
"The Making of the Modern Middle East" (Jeremy Bowen) Histories of all the countries and personal experiences from Bowen.
The two books overlap and certainly opened my eyes to the Nakba and how the UK repeatedly broke promises to both the Jews & to the Palestinians.
I was amazed (buit probably shouldnt have been surprised) at how political pressure, self interest and the desire for power in The UK/US/France all helped to aid the establishment of the Israeli state. It could have been in Argentina or Uganda but for the popularity of Herzl...and damn, that would or could have saved an awful lot of grief!

Highly recomend both books
 
Thornliebank said:
See all these activists in this country who scream about supporting Palestine. They’re happy to do it from thousands of miles away. If they were really serious about it , they would go over there and offer what assistance they could. But they have no intention of doing so. That is the hypocritical Left for you.
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When are you heading over?
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Scum!

Let’s not be hypocritical here, those who support Israel on this must be supporters of Russia as well. Or are the two different matters?
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I think that's what they say. Something to do with guilt tripping people over the holocaust. Can't we just agree that they justifiably need to demolish the high density housing and refugee camps housing Palestinians so more New Yorkers and Russian oligarchs can move in.

Israeli nonces are just as bad Russian nonces.
 
So the Israelis are bulldozing roads in Jennin because the terrorists have planted IEDs just under the surface.

So they're saying.
 
LGWIO said:
I reckon the simple answer is guilt.
It is the UK/France (Europe) & US that has caused this current situation with our actions on the break up of the Ottoman Empire.
I only had (and perhaps still only do) a very basic knowledge of the history of the Middle east until recently. I was always fairly pro Israeli. I imagine like many with that basic feeling of sympathy following the Holocaust and the feeling that they merited somewhere to be safe and avoid persecution.
So after my Spanish Civil war reading I followed it up with;
"A Line in the Sand" (James Barr)..... How the Brits & French carved up the region purely to enhance their own Empires
&
"The Making of the Modern Middle East" (Jeremy Bowen) Histories of all the countries and personal experiences from Bowen.
The two books overlap and certainly opened my eyes to the Nakba and how the UK repeatedly broke promises to both the Jews & to the Palestinians.
I was amazed (buit probably shouldnt have been surprised) at how political pressure, self interest and the desire for power in The UK/US/France all helped to aid the establishment of the Israeli state. It could have been in Argentina or Uganda but for the popularity of Herzl...and damn, that would or could have saved an awful lot of grief!

Highly recomend both books
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I've also read a number of books and as you highlight, the uk bears a lot of responsibility for what is happening now. We lied to the Palestinians with the old 'help us fight the germans' line, promising them their own country and we lied to the Israelis. That said, yesterday's invasion by Israel merely incites more young Palestinian men to take up arms. IMO Israel need the conflict, they want it, it is good for elections, show you are tough on terror etc. so they have no interest in a peaceful solution.
 
Thornliebank said:
See all these activists in this country who scream about supporting Palestine. They’re happy to do it from thousands of miles away. If they were really serious about it , they would go over there and offer what assistance they could. But they have no intention of doing so. That is the hypocritical Left for you.
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How many of them really care enough to do so? Being an activist is just a hobby for some people. For others, they just like attaching themselves popular things.

Why is it that many people seem bothered about the Isreal:Palestine issue or the race issue in the USA, but not the Azerbaijan:Armenia issue or the Myanmar+Rohingya issue or the Mexican drug cartel issue or the treatment of native Papuans by Indonesia in West Papua or the situation in Yemen…?

Some people just pick and choose things to appear bothered about based on what they see is popular.
 
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