Liverpool Thread - 2023/24

[cheekybids]

My old debating friend.

If you agree with my first sentence that Henderson didn't really have firm beliefs about the issues, then he can't be hypocritical for abandoning them. Coniving, maybe, untrustworthy definitely, a **** if you will, but I can't call him hypocritical for making a sound financial decision.

Then again, I am old and tired. I have lived and worked in most regions of the world, as you probably have, and I came to the conclusion, a long time ago, that most people everywhere are cunts motivated by personal benefit. Nothing but respect for the few motivated by bettering the lives of their fellow man, but Henderson isn't one of them. Still, I won't criticise him for going, the coniving, untrustworthy ****.

^ what he said ;)

 

[Oddchild]

Depends on whether you're replacing a midfield that won the league and was challenging on all fronts. I personally think Klopp had played a blinder. He's brought in some real talent to replace some tired legs. I'm not entirely sure Klopp's teams play a highly technical form of football, but I also don't believe they are hoofball like some on here say. So, I'm sure 'bedding in' won't be an issue.

Our best team had possibly the least creative midfield you could hope to see in a successful side. Gini Hendo and Fabinho (plus Milner) but it worked because they covered the defence so well and allowed us to play high successfully. We created chances from the fullbacks and long balls over the top. Doesnt seem to be the game plan this year so we will probably ship 40 plus goals again.

 

[give it to gordon]

Our best team had possibly the least creative midfield you could hope to see in a successful side. Gini Hendo and Fabinho (plus Milner) but it worked because they covered the defence so well and allowed us to play high successfully. We created chances from the fullbacks and long balls over the top. Doesnt seem to be the game plan this year so we will probably ship 40 plus goals again.

Oh I thought it was the 8 defensive players and kick it long to your fast front 3. Abit like under 8s football

 

[Oddchild]

Oh I thought it was the 8 defensive players and kick it long to your fast front 3. Abit like under 8s football

Yep - but it was good enough to stop you from winning 6 in a row. :)

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Maybe some people would point blank refuse to live and work for the Saudi’s and try to struggle on with their millions and millions they already have

M’Bappe says hello…

 

[SebastianBlue]

My old debating friend.

If you agree with my first sentence that Henderson didn't really have firm beliefs about the issues, then he can't be hypocritical for abandoning them. Coniving, maybe, untrustworthy definitely, a **** if you will, but I can't call him hypocritical for making a sound financial decision.

Then again, I am old and tired. I have lived and worked in most regions of the world, as you probably have, and I came to the conclusion, a long time ago, that most people everywhere are cunts motivated by personal benefit. Nothing but respect for the few motivated by bettering the lives of their fellow man, but Henderson isn't one of them. Still, I won't criticise him for going, the coniving, untrustworthy ****.

I was agreeing with the premise of the first sentence, and disagreeing with the premise of the second; specifically the reference to “virtue signalling”, which I find to be the refuge of those that don’t want to work to make things better, but rather just want to complain about everything and criticise those trying to affect positive change. It’s an easy path to rationalising one’s apathy or false neutrality.

Beyond that, the two statements aren’t actually mutually exclusive: you can both have shallow—perhaps self-serving—beliefs and abandon them (hypocritically) once your self-interest conflicts with them. Thus, I can agree with one and disagree with the other, both in general premise and in specific application to Henderson.

At any rate, we both agree he is a ****, so we have common ground there.

I am sad to hear of your general perspective on humanity, though. I have indeed lived and worked in many places around the world, and my general takeaway from nearly every place is that most people are just doing their best to get through each day and take care of those that rely on them. They may occasionally be motivated purely by self-benefit (who hasn’t?) but that is not the default state of most people in the world. At least, not in my opinion.

 

[Spanishbob]

Anyway back on planet earth. A dipper ex player decides like we would all do to make has much cash as possible before he retires. Hate dippers and rags.

 

[its grim up north]

Yep - but it was good enough to stop you from winning 6 in a row. :)

But did it ever happen? No one was there to see it!

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

Is Messi a greedy ****?

I would say he's played a massive part in getting Barca in the mess they are .

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Haha! There’s lots of things I can be accused of, but that certainly isn’t one of them!

You could find it difficult in Saudi!

 

[Bluearmy]

Depends on whether you're replacing a midfield that won the league and was challenging on all fronts. I personally think Klopp had played a blinder. He's brought in some real talent to replace some tired legs. I'm not entirely sure Klopp's teams play a highly technical form of football, but I also don't believe they are hoofball like some on here say. So, I'm sure 'bedding in' won't be an issue.

Not so sure i agree with you. That midfield while limited, worked defensively for how they play. Which was bypassing midfield most of the time. With Henerson & Fabinho gone, their defence will be more exposed…

They are also nowhere near as good upfront without Sane/Firmino, as they once were.

No chance they win the title imo, in transition

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You could find it difficult in Saudi!

You’d be amazed at my capacity to find a place that sells booze!

 

[cheekybids]

I would say he's played a massive part in getting Barca in the mess they are .

That’s completely on the boards head, there’s no way they’d be in that mess with Feran, Txixi & Pep leading the way.

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

You’d be amazed at my capacity to find a place that sells booze!

The most underestimated transferable skill on a cv.

 

[SebastianBlue]

The most underestimated transferable skill on a cv.

Surely you mean consumable?

 

[halfcenturyup]

I was agreeing with the premise of the first sentence, and disagreeing with the premise of the second; specifically the reference to “virtue signalling”, which I find to be the refuge of those that don’t want to work to make things better, but rather just want to complain about everything and criticise those trying to affect positive change. It’s an easy path to rationalising one’s apathy or false neutrality.

Beyond that, the two statements aren’t actually mutually exclusive: you can both have shallow—perhaps self-serving—beliefs and abandon them (hypocritically) once your self-interest conflicts with them. Thus, I can agree with one and disagree with the other, both in general premise and in specific application to Henderson.

At any rate, we both agree he is a ****, so we have common ground there.

I am sad to hear of your general perspective on humanity, though. I have indeed lived and worked in many places around the world, and my general takeaway from nearly every place is that most people are just doing their best to get through each day and take care of those that rely on them. They may occasionally be motivated purely by self-benefit (who hasn’t?) but that is not the default state of most people in the world. At least, not in my opinion.

Without wanting to drag this off-topic, I will admit that I may have over-generalised based on my experiences with the people I have lived and worked with. I, too, have met many people in many places who, in that particular environment, have seemed to be friendly, welcoming and hardworking, family oriented and law-abiding.

The thing is this. Most people know it's not OK to kick a cat, unless they play for West Ham. How much money would it take for someone, nevertheless, to kick a cat? Here in Thailand, $10 should do it. In the UK, a thousand? How many would turn down 10 thousand if they kicked a cat? That makes everyone who doesn't turn down the money a self-serving ****. Hypocritical?Maybe. But to me, its more a reflection that their anti-cat-kicking views just weren't held strongly enough to counter the self-benefitting instinct. And that is where Henderson fits in. He doesn't like to kick cats, but he just sent one into orbit for money. Perfectly normal behaviour.

Is there nothing in this world that you wouldn't turn down to kick a cat?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Its an interesting philosophical debate tbh.

Which is the most reprehensible? That Henderson has abandoned his principles for (even more) money, or that he never held those stridently stated views in the first place, and only did so for commercial gain.

And one of them has to be the reality and either way he’s a greedy ****. His family are going to be fine, either way. Financially, at least. If he’s a shit dad, no amount of money will be able to paper over that crack.

Don‘t agree that ‘anyone’ would act this way. I earn good money and I turn down well paid work all the time for lots of reasons, usually because it’s not in the other person’s best interests. That doesn’t make me a hero, but just someone who realises that there is much more to happiness than money, and that I’m very lucky to earn what I do.

I suspect that Henderson does not possess the critical thinking skills to appreciate this.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Its an interesting philosophical debate tbh.

Which is the most reprehensible? That Henderson has abandoned his principles for (even more) money, or that he never held those stridently stated views in the first place, and only did so for commercial gain.

And one of them has to be the reality and either way he’s a greedy ****. His family are going to be fine, either way. Financially, at least. If he’s a shit dad, no amount of money will be able to paper over that crack.

Don‘t agree that ‘anyone’ would act this way. I earn good money and I turn down well paid work all the time for lots of reasons, usually because it’s not in the other person’s best interests. That doesn’t make me a hero, but just someone who realises that there is much more to happiness than money, and that I’m very lucky to earn what I do.

I suspect that Henderson does not possess the critical thinking skills to appreciate this.

Fair enough, but the benefit doesn't have to be monetary. It could be, say, medical. Top of heart transplant list, or top of a list for a trial of a medicine for an incurable disease. For you? For a child? Kick a cat for those?

PS: Sorry for the premature posting of the reply. Fat fingers and stupid phone ....

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Fair enough. So let's forget the money.

I’ve not said that, and nor do I think that. Money is important, of course it is. It enables you to buy things, do things, go places that can enhance your experience of life and those around you.

I’m just saying that there is far more to happiness than what you earn. The quality of work you do, the impact you have on others, the support you can draw from family and friends are all far more important in the metric of happiness, especially when you have enough to never need to work again (which I absolutely do not btw!).

Henderson has ruined his legacy with Liverpool supporters and for me, the goodwill of the supporters of a club I’d played for over a decade, captained, and lifted major trophies for (and occasionally even in a full stadium!) would be worth more than £700k a week when I’ve already got more than enough to meet the needs of those who are closest to me for this generation and the next.

Like I say, that doesn’t make me a hero, just someone who appreciates what actually matters.

 

[manimanc]

Not so sure i agree with you. That midfield while limited, worked defensively for how they play. Which was bypassing midfield most of the time. With Henerson & Fabinho gone, their defence will be more exposed…

They are also nowhere near as good upfront without Sane/Firmino, as they once were.

No chance they win the title imo, in transition

And there's the narrative for the season if they don't win anything, in transition. I bet it won't be mentioned if they win a few games on the bounce. I can see them struggling, they've lost their intimidating presence they once had, a bit like Old Trafford, nobody is scared anymore.