Lucy Letby infant murders trial

Johnny Mars Bar said:
Is there a point where negligence in these extreme cases becomes criminal? Like say hypothetically a police officer or fireman runs away from an emergency in cowardice instead of saving someone in distress resulting in their death (hopefully that would never happen!) - or in this case management of an NHS trust let a monstrous serial killer murder innocent babies and do nothing?

Surely there's a point where that becomes criminal and not just "gross negligence"?
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Gross negligence is a form of manslaughter. Yes.
 
Bluemoon dan said:
All this forcing people to attend basically hinges on wanting to have a feeling of almost revenge. But that does then rely on the perpetrator actually being bothered by what they've done. If they've shown no contrition to that point I wouldn't particularly want to see them smirking or looking completely disinterested when they're sentenced.
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The fact the bitch didn’t want to attend proves that making her attend would of been some sort of punishment if not much at least the families would have had the pleasure of knowing she was there reluctantly
 
Blue Maverick said:
They should’ve made those twats in charge of the trust who did nothing attend those impact statement readings
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I think they’ll be targeted next….the BBC has an article about Alison Kelly, Letby’s former nurse manager at Chester. Apparently she’s been suspended from her new role….and imo won’t work in the NHS again.

I would hope the rest of the shower who were in charge at Chester get similar treatment…
 
I haven't read all the thread, so maybe this has been said already: unbelievably she stayed in her cell and didn't appear in court for sentencing and to hear victim statements from the parents of murdered children.

How can this possibly be?

The papers are saying that a change of law now needs looking at.... but I don't think that is necessary at all. Prison Guards could use reasonable force to get her into the dock (and if she starts shouting off may I recommend Gorilla Tape?) but they didn't apparently fearful that 'reasonable force' could so easily become 'unreasonable force' and they could be sued!

What is going on in this country right now, will nobody actually show some courage and do the right thing?

Even if she struggled and a 15 stone guard broke her arm, would anyone really be bothered? She is lucky it is not the 1950s a broken arm wouldn't be the issue, it would be a broken neck....
 
gill_undrhill said:
I haven't read all the thread, so maybe this has been said already: unbelievably she stayed in her cell and didn't appear in court for sentencing and to hear victim statements from the parents of murdered children.

How can this possibly be?

The papers are saying that a change of law now needs looking at.... but I don't think that is necessary at all. Prison Guards could use reasonable force to get her into the dock (and if she starts shouting off may I recommend Gorilla Tape?) but they didn't apparently fearful that 'reasonable force' could so easily become 'unreasonable force' and they could be sued!

What is going on in this country right now, will nobody actually show some courage and do the right thing?

Even if she struggled and a 15 stone guard broke her arm, would anyone really be bothered? She is lucky it is not the 1950s a broken arm wouldn't be the issue, it would be a broken neck....
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And then does this…
You really want that?

www.ibtimes.co.uk

'I Masturbate to the Memory of Your Dead Kids': Sick Rant of US High School Killer TJ Lane

Triple killer dodges death sentence for being a minor when he opened fire at Ohio's Chardon High School.
www.ibtimes.co.uk www.ibtimes.co.uk
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Gross negligence is a form of manslaughter. Yes.
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Can they be looked at for Corporate Negligent Manslaughter or whatever they call it?
Alison Kelly, Nursing Director at the time has been suspended by Northern Care Alliance thank goodness. The other two Ian Harvey and Tony Chambers retired on full pensions.... reckoned to be around £1.08M apiece!!
 
I wouldn't force them to attend at all. if they know they are going down for life, what's to stop them just kicking off all the more, shouting, screaming and causing chaos in court? Imagine the obscenities and abuse that could be launched at the already grieving parents and how utterly distressing that would be. When you kick off in a courtroom anyway the judge usually has you removed so they could play that particular gambit all day long.

Just let them know that their earliest parole date will be delayed by five years for non attendance and have done with it.
 
Kinkybyname said:
I wouldn't force them to attend at all. if they know they are going down for life, what's to stop them just kicking off all the more, shouting, screaming and causing chaos in court? Imagine the obscenities and abuse that could be launched at the already grieving parents and how utterly distressing that would be. When you kick off in a courtroom anyway the judge usually has you removed so they could play that particular gambit all day long.

Just let them know that their earliest parole date will be delayed by five years for non attendance and have done with it.
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Here is an idea: give her the choice, attend the sentence hearing - listen to the victim statements and do so respectfully and you will get a cell in a safe wing isolated from other dangerous felons OR - don't come to the hearing and we will put you in a mainstream prison and you can take your chances (she'd be dead by Friday at the latest).
 
gill_undrhill said:
Here is an idea: give her the choice, attend the sentence hearing - listen to the victim statements and do so respectfully and you will get a cell in a safe wing isolated from other dangerous felons OR - don't come to the hearing and we will put you in a mainstream prison and you can take your chances (she'd be dead by Friday at the latest).
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she will be in isolation so she will be safe , it is the prisons responsibily to keep her safe along with never getting out there was no levers to get her there , needs a law change
 
Eccles Blue said:
Can they be looked at for Corporate Negligent Manslaughter or whatever they call it?
Alison Kelly, Nursing Director at the time has been suspended by Northern Care Alliance thank goodness. The other two Ian Harvey and Tony Chambers retired on full pensions.... reckoned to be around £1.08M apiece!!
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Corporate manslaughter can only be committed by organisations not individuals.

It would be gross negligence and possibly other offences relating to abuse of office if they concealed information or deliberately didn't investigate.

I'm not sure it will be proven though because two investigations concluded that there wasn't anything going on untoward.

It took two years of the police investigating her to catch her. Incompetence and lapses of judgement but not sure it's enough for gross negligence.
 
gill_undrhill said:
Here is an idea: give her the choice, attend the sentence hearing - listen to the victim statements and do so respectfully and you will get a cell in a safe wing isolated from other dangerous felons OR - don't come to the hearing and we will put you in a mainstream prison and you can take your chances (she'd be dead by Friday at the latest).
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Giving her choice is giving her control.
She should be given no agency over any aspect of her life for the rest of her life.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Corporate manslaughter can only be committed by organisations not individuals.

It would be gross negligence and possibly other offences relating to abuse of office if they concealed information or deliberately didn't investigate.

I'm not sure it will be proven though because two investigations concluded that there wasn't anything going on untoward.

It took two years of the police investigating her to catch her. Incompetence and lapses of judgement but not sure it's enough for gross negligence.
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Thank you, I wasn't sure.
 
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