Rishi Sunak

Brewster's millions said:
Funny how you equate my post with whining, when all I’m doing is pointing out the reality of the situation on here.

Hours upon hours of hate and vitriol about Sunak, and when someone points out the facts about a specific part of Labour policy - which every knows is essentially the same as the government’s - you’re unable to handle it. You fold like a sack of shit.

It’s all so erratic as well. Citing Cameron and Johnson’s opposition to Sunak’s decision on HS2, when you all hate Cameron and Johnson with a passion, due in no small part to the school they went to. Just very erratic and contradictory.
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We’ve no idea yet what Labours policy is going to be now, so I’m not sure how anyone can say it’s the same as the governments? The government themselves don’t even know what their policy now is, they’re still rewriting it and taking chunks out.
 
blueinsa said:
His and the parties silence said it all.

They had no intention whatsoever of completing HS2. If they had, they would have said so and instead, they hide behind centuries of the exact same political excuse that blames previous government policy and how they can’t go back.

Literally every major fuck up this shit Tory government has made, Starmer and the Labour Party are committed to carrying on, including Brexit.

Is it any wonder why some then say what they say about him?

Sunak is a ****, Starmer has a choice not to be one and so far, the signs are not great he won’t be the same.
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Labour are just saying as little as possible because they think that's the best chance to be elected. That's not the same as wanting to scrap hs2 and then spinning out a load of lies about leveling up in other ways.
 
Brewster's millions said:
Funny how you equate my post with whining, when all I’m doing is pointing out the reality of the situation on here.

Hours upon hours of hate and vitriol about Sunak, and when someone points out the facts about a specific part of Labour policy - which every knows is essentially the same as the government’s - you’re unable to handle it. You fold like a sack of shit.

It’s all so erratic as well. Citing Cameron and Johnson’s opposition to Sunak’s decision on HS2, when you all hate Cameron and Johnson with a passion, due in no small part to the school they went to. Just very erratic and contradictory.
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Your attempt to drag this discussion into ‘envy politics’ perfectly demonstrates where the Tories are right now. The party of grievance and identity politics. Thank you for making my point.
 
blueinsa said:
His and the parties silence said it all.

They had no intention whatsoever of completing HS2. If they had, they would have said so and instead, they hide behind centuries of the exact same political excuse that blames previous government policy and how they can’t go back.

Literally every major fuck up this shit Tory government has made, Starmer and the Labour Party are committed to carrying on, including Brexit.

Is it any wonder why some then say what they say about him?

Sunak is a ****, Starmer has a choice not to be one and so far, the signs are not great he won’t be the same.
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Dropping HS2 is clearly two things:

1. It allows the Tories to list of a huge amount of alternative plans (even if those plans have been shown to included a lot of nonsense), in constituencies all over the country.

2. It creates a trap for Labour. If they say they'll build HS2, then the Tories will talk about the £40billion+ tax bombshell that Labour will have to drop. If no tax rises, then it'll be "where will the money come from?" Even though the a lot of the other plans had already been promised, it'll be presented as either HS2 OR all those other plans - and the Tories are allowed to look responsible. Given that the announcement has been such a monumental fuck up, Labour have taken the most pragmatic option, which is to say the Tories have messed up, and we don't know if we'll be able to fix it.

If you can think of a better idea for Labour, I'd love to hear it, but all I see is the Tories have messed up, and Labour aren't interested in letting them off the hook.
 
BobKowalski said:
HS2 had cross party consensus. That is the only way you can complete these projects. The Tories have now abandoned governance - much like the Republicans in the US. That leaves Labour as the only major party interested in governance.

That is the difference between the two major parties. Brexit drove the Tories insane and what we have today is the result. A Tory party focused on grievance and identity politics. It is no longer capable of governing because its pet project makes governance harder. Brexit requires larger state spending, this means higher taxes. Brexit means more red tape, it means trading with Europe has more friction and even worse we are subject to EU decisions via a deal that benefitted the EU more than it did us just to satisfy a simple three word slogan and win an election. This is not what the Tories wanted or expected to happen, hence the flight into a fantasy world of woke and inventing phantom policies to attack.

You and others bemoan about not electing clever and capable people? Well, look at who and what we voted for over the last ten years and you can see ‘clever and capable‘ was not top of the fucking list of what we wanted.

Dumb and simple. Yes. Clever and capable. No.
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On your last point yes but that's my point, this is a problem with the political system as opposed to who is available to be elected. The electorate wanted Brexit and that's why they voted in the Tories. Given the choice on many other issues though the vast majority of people wouldn't vote for any of them because there is no appeal to either party.

Labour will win the next election more than likely but they'll win the next election because everyone wants rid of the Tories. So when we're rid of the Tories what's next? Do we have another 5 years of fighting on this forum to ensure the Tories don't get back in? I hope you can see how unproductive this really is.

You mention the US but look at the US, Trump and Biden come from very different ideologies yet both have seen power over the last 10 years and rather incredibly absolutely nothing has changed. One is worse than the other and there isn't really anything else to say... Is that not depressing?
 
BobKowalski said:
Your attempt to drag this discussion into ‘envy politics’ perfectly demonstrates where the Tories are right now. The party of grievance and identity politics. Thank you for making my point.
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Citing opposition from Cameron and Johnson as a critique of Sunak.

Just proves how nonsensical your arguments are, however much you try to apply a layer of fake intellect.
 
inbetween said:
On your last point yes but that's my point, this is a problem with the political system as opposed to who is available to be elected. The electorate wanted Brexit and that's why they voted in the Tories. Given the choice on many other issues though the vast majority of people wouldn't vote for any of them because there is no appeal to either party.

Labour will win the next election more than likely but they'll win the next election because everyone wants rid of the Tories. So when we're rid of the Tories what's next? Do we have another 5 years of fighting on this forum to ensure the Tories don't get back in? I hope you can see how unproductive this really is.

You mention the US but look at the US, Trump and Biden come from very different ideologies yet both have seen power over the last 10 years and rather incredibly absolutely nothing has changed. One is worse than the other and there isn't really anything else to say... Is that not depressing?
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There is a difference. And things do change. I reject the false equivalence of those in power actively seeking to do harm and those in power trying to better peoples lives and sometimes coming up short.
 
blueinsa said:
In black and white.

It will be ignored though.
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Politicians are allowed to lie because the voting public haven't got a choice to get rid of them because the next chancer is a liar and a cheat too.

It all starts with the shit selection process we have not to mention party politics.
 
Brewster's millions said:
So much ammo, and yet what has Starmer done with it today?

Absolutely nothing, other than to tell a few porkies about not being able to reverse the decision on HS2.
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labour cant reverse the decision because there will be no money for it , houses and land will be available for those displaced to buy back, lots of on the ground reasons that reversing would not be possible , you are as disingenous as your hero
 
Postman Pep said:
Not much 'avoiding saying anything ' here. No caveats either.

To do anything else would be a complete betrayal of the north.

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It's as if politics is a bit more complicated.

The Tories have tried to put Labour in a trap, but the mess of the "re-announced/already built" plans, and the scorched Earth plan to sell all the HS2 land has instead presented them with an absolute gift.

Right now, if Labour say they'll do whatever it takes to get HS2 and all the other projects built - many of which aren't in the Integrated Rail Plan just puts them on the back foot, defending HS2 and having to explain where the money will come from.

The Tories have had an absolute shit show of a week. Trying to portray it as bad for Labour is what I expect from GB News and The Express, not someone on the left.
 
blueinsa said:
In black and white.

It will be ignored though.
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From 2021. Given both the overspend and then Sunaks announcement and the policy accompanying it, if Labour came out today and said they’d still implement it in full then that would be madness as they have no idea now what they’re going to inherit. If Sunak does implement exactly what he says he will, he’s in all essence removed the possibility of an alternative next government of having a choice.
 
BobKowalski said:
There is a difference. And things do change. I reject the false equivalence of those in power actively seeking to do harm and those in power trying to better peoples lives and sometimes coming up short.
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Personally I'm more in favour of a sort of technocracy where decisions are made based upon evidence and science. That doesn't fit well into the political world, if it did then we wouldn't have a problem with HS2 because it wouldn't of been proposed in the first place.

What would of been proposed is what's needed and that's smaller projects that really benefit people. For example, we've never done sideways really well, you can't get from west-east easily. It's quicker to fly to Spain than it is to drive or get the train and travel 80 miles to York.

In comparison to the Tories, are Labour going to improve national infrastructure and make the above easier? If they are then I must have missed it. What they should be doing is not attacking the Tories on cancelling HS2 up here. Cancelling HS2 up here should be welcomed and they should be arguing where they'll spend the newly found surplus.
 
bluenova said:
Dropping HS2 is clearly two things:

1. It allows the Tories to list of a huge amount of alternative plans (even if those plans have been shown to included a lot of nonsense), in constituencies all over the country.

2. It creates a trap for Labour. If they say they'll build HS2, then the Tories will talk about the £40billion+ tax bombshell that Labour will have to drop. If no tax rises, then it'll be "where will the money come from?" Even though the a lot of the other plans had already been promised, it'll be presented as either HS2 OR all those other plans - and the Tories are allowed to look responsible. Given that the announcement has been such a monumental fuck up, Labour have taken the most pragmatic option, which is to say the Tories have messed up, and we don't know if we'll be able to fix it.

If you can think of a better idea for Labour, I'd love to hear it, but all I see is the Tories have messed up, and Labour aren't interested in letting them off the hook.
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Why would they increase taxes to pay for it? It’s a borrowing project (infrastructure).

Some of the defence of Starmer’s position on this is positively laughable. He can’t do it because the tories will sell all the land etc poor old Starmer he’d really love to build it. If Starmer wanted to have the option to continue the project they could table a motion to prevent the project being irrevocably “cancelled” in the house to do so - I’m sure they’d get enough support from sitting Tory MPs to make it pass but even if he didn’t he’d be able to point to trying.

They won’t do it, why? Because Starmer’s Labour doesn’t want it. Nor does Sunak’s tories. Browns Labour did, as did Cameron’s and Johnson tories. It’s not about parties positions, but that of their current leaders.
 
Not entirely sure what people want from Starmer - he just won a by-election where Sunaks Tories lost their deposit plus he has a conference coming up next week which is where more can be said. I'd expect questions about the HS2 fiasco and the prison barge fiasco (wtf is going on there? Is it just being abandoned now?) - if he goes through that triumphantly and Labour goes up in the polls then Sunaks plans for an autumn election are dead in the water. Then Sunak has to endure a winter that will be really bad for voters - food banks are now having to ration baby formula ffs - and go in the Spring because the later he leaves it the bigger the defeat will be.
 
meltonblue said:
From 2021. Given both the overspend and then Sunaks announcement and the policy accompanying it, if Labour came out today and said they’d still implement it in full then that would be madness as they have no idea now what they’re going to inherit. If Sunak does implement exactly what he says he will, he’s in all essence removed the possibility of an alternative next government of having a choice.
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So you support the decision taken by Sunak due to the overspend then?
 
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