Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

meltonblue said:
Depending which vid that is, it might not be recent. The most popular one I’ve seen doing the rounds today is actually from a few years ago.

Particularly Twitter under Musks ownership, I’d be wary of anything on social media if you don’t already know and trust the source.
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Isn't the problem here that there is so much footage to choose from over numerous years?
 
Nothing like an Israel/Palestine discussion to bring out the worst in people. That land seems cursed the amount of blood that has been spilt over it.

It shouldn't turn into whataboutery, what happened today was plain wrong and evil and the Israeli response will end up killing just as many if not more innocent civilians.

In the end both governments get what they want which is an angry population looking to them for action.
 
trueblue1972 said:
My knowledge of late probably isn't. It's a shit show from both sides , which I've tried to distance myself from . However, it started because certain extreamisy Palestinian terror groups such as the PLO refuse to accept that Israel should remain and continually attacked , this resulted in pushing back and 'stealing' land .
I honestly can't see peace there for a very long time , if ever .
And what has happend now is going to get very messy
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I'm not sure where "it" "started" but Israeli terrorist groups bombing British soldiers had something to do with "it".

You don't have to support new atrocities to be aware of old (and recent) atrocities.
 
trueblue1972 said:
Eh ?
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He’s talking about the King David hotel and the 2 sergeants in 1946/7.

But then you could go back to the 1930s Arab uprising.

And where do you stop? Roman times?

In reality both peoples have a long historical connection to the land and many share ancestry back in biblical times.

There’s no easy solution and it will take visionary leaders on both sides to have a chance. And that’s something that’s been sadly lacking since the assassination of Rabin in 1995.
 
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west didsblue said:
He’s talking about the King David hotel and the 2 sergeants in 1946/7.
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www.nam.ac.uk

The British Army in Palestine | National Army Museum

In the aftermath of the Second World War (1939-45), the British Army in Palestine confronted an escalating conflict between two rival nationalist movements – Jewish and Arab.
www.nam.ac.uk www.nam.ac.uk
I was about to edit my post add this and continue , however I've decided not to elaborate any more the way things are going on here lol
 
threespires said:
Presumably refering to the campaign against the British in Mandatory Palestine? But then that was predated by the Arab revolt. An unholy mess for a very long time.
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Yes a bit away from my experiences that I was refering to , ive chosen to step away lol
 
1961_vintage said:
Anyone any clue on what Hamas are hoping to achieve? It's almost like some bizarre self-destruct button has been pressed.
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Probably regional geo-politics. Hamas are not some ragamuffin group of freedom fighters, funded by nickels & dimes, but a proxy arm of Iranian power. As are Hezbollah. There's speculation that they're acting on Iranian orders to torpedo an Israeli-Saudi normalisation of relations. They carry out atrocities and Israel never fails to respond in kind and escalate dramatically, meaning the Saudis would probably have to edge back.

This has been a recurring theme in fact. If there's any sign of some sort of breakthrough, the extremists on one side or other will usually have a good go at scuppering it. Organisations like Hamas & the extreme right in Israel actually have a symbiotic relationship, in that each one needs the other in order to justify both their existences.

The Saudi demands as the price of that rapprochement with Israel are not justice for the Palestinians (although they may pay that cause lip service) but US guarantees over their (Saudi Arabia's) security.

Hamas & Hezbollah (Hamas probably more so than Hezbollah) are also Islamic fundamentalists, who hate people like the Saudi and Emirati monarchies. So there's no love lost between the Gulf states and organisations like Hamas. One of the driving factors in the thawing of relations between Israel and the Gulf is the growing realisation that they have a common enemy that's more harmful to both of them than Israel is to Saudi Arabia and vice versa.

In truth, the Arab world is all lip service about the Palestinians and doesn't really care about them. The Arab League ordered its members not to offer them citizenship. It's incredibly cynical and means they'll always be Palestinian refugees. Is it really infeasible that countries with combined populations of over 400m couldn't absorb 0.2% of that number? It's like us taking in 100,000 refugees. That 0.2% is our current and projected rate every year, not a one off.

This is why you have to be careful as this isn't simply a game of cops and robbers, with one side good and the other bad.
 
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Prestwich_Blue said:
Probably regional geo-politics. Hamas are not some ragamuffin group of freedom fighters, funded by nickels & dimes, but a proxy arm of Iranian power. As are Hezbollah. There's speculation that they're acting on Iranian orders to torpedo an Israeli-Saudi normalisation of relations. They carry out atrocities and Israel never fails to respond in kind and escalate dramatically, meaning the Saudis would probably have to edge back.

This has been a recurring theme in fact. If there's any sign of some sort of breakthrough, the extremists on one side or other will usually have a good go at scuppering it. Organisations like Hamas & the extreme right in Israel actually have a symbiotic relationship, in that each one needs to other in order to justify both their existences.

The Saudi demands as the price of that rapprochement with Israel are not justice for the Palestinians (although they may pay that cause lip service) but US guarantees over their (Saudi Arabia's) security.

Hamas & Hezbollah (Hamas probably more so than Hezbollah) are also Islamic fundamentalists, who hate people like the Saudi and Emirati monarchies. So there's no love lost between the Gulf states and organisations like Hamas. One of the driving factors in the thawing of relations between Israel and the Gulf is the growing realisation that they have a common enemy that's more harmful to both of them than Israel is to Saudi Arabia and vice versa.

In truth, the Arab world is all lip service about the Palestinians and doesn't really care about them. The Arab League ordered its members not to offer them citizenship. It's incredibly cynical and means they'll always be Palestinian refugees. Is it really infeasible that countries with combined populations of over 400m couldn't absorb 0.2% of that number? It's like us taking in 100,000 refugees. That 0.2% is our current and projected rate every year, not a one off.

This is why you have to be careful as this isn't simply a game of cops and robbers, with one side good and the other bad.
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Cheers PB - appreciate the insights.
 
Vic said:
I'm not sure where "it" "started" but Israeli terrorist groups bombing British soldiers had something to do with "it".

You don't have to support new atrocities to be aware of old (and recent) atrocities.
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If you want one incident that kicked it all off, you'd probably have to go back to the Judean revolt against Rome in the first century AD, which ended in 79 AD with the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the second temple.

That led to the deaths or enslavement of about one third of the then-Jewish population and the exile of probably another third, with the rest remaining.

So it's all the Italians' fault and maybe we should have mass protests outside San Carlo's or Pizza Express.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Probably regional geo-politics. Hamas are not some ragamuffin group of freedom fighters, funded by nickels & dimes, but a proxy arm of Iranian power. As are Hezbollah. There's speculation that they're acting on Iranian orders to torpedo an Israeli-Saudi normalisation of relations. They carry out atrocities and Israel never fails to respond in kind and escalate dramatically, meaning the Saudis would probably have to edge back.

This has been a recurring theme in fact. If there's any sign of some sort of breakthrough, the extremists on one side or other will usually have a good go at scuppering it. Organisations like Hamas & the extreme right in Israel actually have a symbiotic relationship, in that each one needs to other in order to justify both their existences.

The Saudi demands as the price of that rapprochement with Israel are not justice for the Palestinians (although they may pay that cause lip service) but US guarantees over their (Saudi Arabia's) security.

Hamas & Hezbollah (Hamas probably more so than Hezbollah) are also Islamic fundamentalists, who hate people like the Saudi and Emirati monarchies. So there's no love lost between the Gulf states and organisations like Hamas. One of the driving factors in the thawing of relations between Israel and the Gulf is the growing realisation that they have a common enemy that's more harmful to both of them than Israel is to Saudi Arabia and vice versa.

In truth, the Arab world is all lip service about the Palestinians and doesn't really care about them. The Arab League ordered its members not to offer them citizenship. It's incredibly cynical and means they'll always be Palestinian refugees. Is it really infeasible that countries with combined populations of over 400m couldn't absorb 0.2% of that number? It's like us taking in 100,000 refugees. That 0.2% is our current and projected rate every year, not a one off.

This is why you have to be careful as this isn't simply a game of cops and robbers, with one side good and the other bad.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s almost inevitable that Iran will have been instrumental in the build up to this. Absolutely no doubt in my opinion.
 
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