Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

[halfcenturyup]

This is something the State of Israel carries out as a matter of state policy all the time.
So is it still a bit terroristey when they do it or is just when the Palestinians do it?

Insurgencies are violent, ruthless and brutal because they are generally perpetrated by civilians (in a paramilitary form) against other civilians from whom the first party thinks they have suffered injustice.

Fighting insurgency is dirty because normal security authorities are unable to cope and so military tactics are most often used against insurgents who are integrated within the civilian population.

Both are seen as terrorists by the other party. I see both as utter cunts, along with the sponsors who support them, but in the end there has to be a negotiated settlement. What triggers it is the question.

 

[Metal Biker]

Dodging what I've answered everything. If you honestly think the Israelis will give the stolen land back you're for the cookoos.

I didn't ask, nor want, your 'approval' of my suggested solution. You asked me what I thought, I told you.

And you still haven't given your solution, not to me anyway. You have a very disapproving view of the Israelis as a whole, don't you. I'd love to hear what solution for peace you can put forward that doesnt involve the complete eradication of the State of Israel.

 

[The blue phantom]

What a lot of people don't understand is Iarael haven't just stolen all this land or occupied it. People somehow forget or don't realise a lot was sold by very rich Arab land owners. Its not as cut and dry as people are told.

I don't wanna get into too much politics, but the Western media don't really cover the Israel and Palestine issue with much truth/fairness.

Israel certainly are to blame too, but it's never been as one sided as the media here spins it. I was in Beersheba roughly 5 years ago to the day and Palestinians were firing rockets at where I was, unprovoked at the time. Hardly a word about it in the news here in the UK. If it was the other way around, it would have had a lot more coverage. There's a lot happens both ways that we don't know about unless you've been there. A lot of Palestinians are far more oppressed by Hamas and the people running their country right now.


Either way it's a sad situation all round, innocent people on both sides being killed, its not right.

I have family and friends in Israel, I've been in contact but none of them have been online since yesterday. Hopefully they're all OK.

Are you actually serious with the Western Media post? They are heavily leaned towards the Israeli’s cause and always have been.

 

[Paul1970]

Dodging what I've answered everything. If you honestly think the Israelis will give the stolen land back you're for the cookoos.

They will take more land .

 

[trueblue1972]

Are you actually serious with the Western Media post? They are heavily leaned towards the Israeli’s cause and always have been.

His experience of the time he spent there was exactly the same as my time there , just because you don't hear of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen

 

[Crooked_rain]

Are you actually serious with the Western Media post? They are heavily leaned towards the Israeli’s cause and always have been.

Some yes, not all.

Anyway that wasn't my main point. My point was people who have never stepped foot in that part of the world think that it's all one way traffic, that Israel have stolen land that was actually sold off by land owners etc etc. They've got this information from somewhere but there's a lot of holes in the information/narrative from important details being left out. People don't truly look into it.

I've been there and experienced rocket attacks from Palestinians which was instigated by them, not a retaliation. Didn't get anywhere near the coverage that it would the other way around at the time.

I wouldn't justify the things Israel have done too, but it's not this cut and dry, good versus evil etc. Until you go and spend time in that part of the world, understand it, you'll start to realise there's blame to be shared.

Anyway its just a terrible situation all round, innocent people from both sides dying.

I can't even get in touch with my family members there, hopefully they're OK but these are just normal working people caught up in all this.

 

[Postman Pep]

The idea that there is a western media bias towards the Palestinians is laughable.




The Guardian a few days apart. 'Received bullet wounds' ffs. Imagine a headline 'received rockets' ..... there would be outrage and rightly so.

 

[SWP's back]

I did exactly that; you're just not happy that my answer didn't involve violence. So i'll repeat it for you;

Remove Hamas as their representatives, install a more moderate, co-operative government that uses dialogue, not aggression, to press their case before the United Nations. Create dialogue with the Israeli Government. Publicly disassociate with Hezbollah and Iran, which are also seen as hostile towards Jews and the continued existance of the State of Israel.

Yeah your answer was an answer and 1000x better than his, mainly because you actually gave an answer.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Some yes, not all.

Anyway that wasn't my main point. My point was people who have never stepped foot in that part of the world think that it's all one way traffic, that Israel have stolen land that was actually sold off by land owners etc etc. They've got this information from somewhere but there's a lot of holes in the information/narrative from important details being left out. People don't truly look into it.

I've been there and experienced rocket attacks from Palestinians which was instigated by them, not a retaliation. Didn't get anywhere near the coverage that it would the other way around at the time.

I wouldn't justify the things Israel have done too, but it's not this cut and dry, good versus evil etc. Until you go and spend time in that part of the world, understand it, you'll start to realise there's blame to be shared.

Anyway its just a terrible situation all round, innocent people from both sides dying.

I can't even get in touch with my family members there, hopefully they're OK but these are just normal working people caught up in all this.

Just for clarity, so I understand your point, you are suggesting that if a Palestinian sells land to an Israeli, then sovereignty changes? Surely they would just be owning land in Palestine territory?

 

[SWP's back]

I agree about Hams.

But Israel cares not one fuck about the Palestinians too. There's a post on here this morning which was one of the worst I've ever read regarding Palestinian people.

For balance, there have been fucking shit posts each and every way. Mainly because “being a Blue” has never stopped some people from being cunts.

 

[The blue phantom]

Yeah your answer was an answer and 1000x better than his, mainly because you actually gave an answer.

I've answered it 4 times already. It was the same answer I gave you yesterday to which you agreed. @Metal Biker thinks if Hamas stop the bombing then one day the Israelis might give them their stolen land back. To which there's not One person anywhere on the planet outside of the Israeli bubble who thinks that will ever happen.

 

[The blue phantom]

For balance, there have been fucking shit posts each and every way. Mainly because “being a Blue” has never stopped some people from being cunts.

But it seems the abhorrent post by the Ones supporting Israel have an Arsene Wenger feel about them. Meaning some posters have stated " I've not seen or read those ones"

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

For balance, there have been fucking shit posts each and every way. Mainly because “being a Blue” has never stopped some people from being cunts.

Does that include pointing out that hostages are being taken as bargaining chips? Something that mainstream media have highlighted.

Here's some context to the claim Israel would kill it's own.

Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[halfcenturyup]

I've answered it 4 times already. It was the same answer I gave you yesterday to which you agreed. @Metal Biker thinks if Hamas stop the bombing then one day the Israelis might give them their stolen land back. To which there's not One person anywhere on the planet outside of the Israeli bubble who thinks that will ever happen.

Probably right that the answer isn't coming from the Israelis or the Palestinians. Needs some US/ Iran realpolitik or regime change in Iran (or more likely the US, the way it's going: joke .....), neither of which look like happening any time soon.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I've answered it 4 times already. It was the same answer I gave you yesterday to which you agreed. @Metal Biker thinks if Hamas stop the bombing then one day the Israelis might give them their stolen land back. To which there's not One person anywhere on the planet outside of the Israeli bubble who thinks that will ever happen.

He still believes in EFTA, unrealistic political solutions are something of a hobby. So you might as well go and have a discussion with Jeremy Bentham as you'll get more sense out of him.

The simplest answer is no, Israel won't give any land back and a less militant leadership of the Palestinians will only embolden them.

The only way the settlements are being given back is if the cost to defend them becomes unsustainable.

And anyone with half a brain knows that the settlements are a deliberate tactic to prevent the viability of a Palestinian statehood.

Israel wants the status quo and wants to creep on slowly towards it's long term objectives.

They will only come to the table when forced to do so by a crushing military defeat.

Something that looks more possible with the advances of drone warfare.

 

[Metal Biker]

I've answered it 4 times already. It was the same answer I gave you yesterday to which you agreed. @Metal Biker thinks if Hamas stop the bombing then one day the Israelis might give them their stolen land back. To which there's not One person anywhere on the planet outside of the Israeli bubble who thinks that will ever happen.

No, you haven't. At least not to me.

So what is your solution that you've answered "4 times already", because nobody seems to be able to quote it.

 

[halfcenturyup]

No, you haven't. At least not to me.

So what is your solution that you've answered "4 times already", because nobody seems to be able to quote it.

I thought he was saying it starts with giving the occupied territories back? About as likely as yours I think, or mine, for that matter.

 

[The blue phantom]

No, you haven't. At least not to me.

So what is your solution that you've answered "4 times already", because nobody seems to be able to quote it.

There's isn't a solution until Israel remove themselves from Palestinian Territory, Thats FIVE times now ive stated this.Not just stop expanding settlers but give the fuckin lot back which they've been thieving for 50 years. There's an Israeli who's commented on here and he feels uneasy living on Stolen land and feels for the Palestinians. His words.

 

[Crooked_rain]

Just for clarity, so I understand your point, you are suggesting that if a Palestinian sells land to an Israeli, then sovereignty changes? Surely they would just be owning land in Palestine territory?

But does that mean it's stolen?

 

[Metal Biker]

He still believes in EFTA, unrealistic political solutions are something of a hobby. So you might as well go and have a discussion with Jeremy Bentham as you'll get more sense out of him.

The simplest answer is no, Israel won't give any land back and a less militant leadership of the Palestinians will only embolden them.

The only way the settlements are being given back is if the cost to defend them becomes unsustainable.

And anyone with half a brain knows that the settlements are a deliberate tactic to prevent the viability of a Palestinian statehood.

Israel wants the status quo and wants to creep on slowly towards it's long term objectives.

They will only come to the table when forced to do so by a crushing military defeat.

Something that looks more possible with the advances of drone warfare.

RE: EFTA. So unrealistic it was suggested to us by the EU themselves.