Middle East Conflict

Human rights ? Do they only exist for certain communities ? Do Palestinians have human rights?
Should a western country decide what human rights people of Middle Eastern countries have?
If west is adamant to have a standard charter of human rights, then why that is not applied to the rights of people of Palestine or Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or Libya and so on … ?

Or do they only care about the human rights of people who identify themselves with the western values ? In essence they defend the western values rather than rights of humans who happen to identify themselves with the western values. If the same people changed their mind on the western values, would the west still talk about their rights? No, they’ll say they deserve to suffer because they have such backward (in west’s view) values.
So you are saying that you support things like gay people being executed or imprisoned amongst many examples that could be given ?

Or that their should be different levels of humans, as you seem to forwarding differing human rights ?
 
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So you are saying that you support things like gay people being executed or imprisoned amongst many examples that could be given ?
I think he's saying cultures are different and hold different values. They are all at different stages aand whilst they get there why are the west so eaager to hold them to account. England in the 80s was a terrible place for gay people, black people, etc etc.. It took a generation or two to change that. Imagine being told all that time how shit we were, how backwards. I think thats what he means.
 
So you are saying that you support things like gay people being executed or imprisoned amongst many examples that could be given ?

Or that their should be different levels of humans, as you seem to forwarding differing human rights ?
You prove my point by your first question : you want to know whether I agree with your values before you can support me or denounce me. So it’s your values you support, not my human rights.

As far as your 2nd question is concerned, I think communities should be able to decide for themselves their human rights. Just like communities are allowed to decide who governs them in elections, they should be able to decide what laws they want to govern them or what principles or frameworks they want to adapt to be able to live those lives?
 
You prove my point by your first question : you want to know whether I agree with your values before you can support me or denounce me. So it’s your values you support, not my human rights.

As far as your 2nd question is concerned, I think communities should be able to decide for themselves their human rights. Just like communities are allowed to decide who governs them in elections, they should be able to decide what laws they want to govern them or what principles or frameworks they want to adapt to be able to live those lives?
No, you prove that your idea of human rights is emminently moveable, in other words we are not all equal, and that a framework of hatred is good enough for you.

You'll find that the Palastinians did decide for themselves a while ago in elections. It is not the rest of the worlds fault that once the people they elect get into power refuse to ever relinquish that power !
 
 
You prove my point by your first question : you want to know whether I agree with your values before you can support me or denounce me. So it’s your values you support, not my human rights.

As far as your 2nd question is concerned, I think communities should be able to decide for themselves their human rights. Just like communities are allowed to decide who governs them in elections, they should be able to decide what laws they want to govern them or what principles or frameworks they want to adapt to be able to live those lives?
So you don't accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights then?
 
Ridiculous, moronic and totally ignorant statement albeit typical of some, fortunately a minority, on here who love to spout cliches about this situation.

Israel is a democratic state, founded democratically by a vote at the UN. It's amusing how those who decry Israel for not accepting UN resolutions, refuse to accept the most crucial one in the history of the region and also fail to recognise that the actions of the Arab bloc had consequences. As actions do.

Had the Arab side accepted partition, things may have turned out differently. But they didn't, and that led to them (a) attacking Israel en masse, (b) losing quite a bit of the territory assigned to them in the Partition Plan and (c) creating a lot of refugees among the Palestinian people in the former Mandate. No war, no refugees.

After 1948, Gaza was under military occupation, but by Egypt, not Israel, and the West Bank was annexed, not by Israeli settlers but by Jordan. But the people screaming about Israel "occupying" Gaza and creeping annexation of the West Bank didn't seem to get too incensed about that. And if the 1948 war had turned out differentl, with a total Arab victory, then the territory would have been claimed by Syria, as part of its fantasy 'Greater Syria', which included most of that part of the world and even parts of the Arabian Peninsula.

Nasser rattled his sabres in 1967 and closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and forcing the removal of the UN peacekeeping force in Sinai, despite Israel making it clear that these would be a causus belli. Yet he still went ahead and did that, leading to the Six Day War. That left Israel in control of Gaza and the West Bank, leading to the current situation. Actions, yet again, having consequences.

Then there was the rise of Palestinian terrorism, leading to the Munich Olympic massacre in 1972 and other notorious events. Followed by the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Israel was attacked without provocation.

That's not to excuse the actions of the more recent Israeli governments, fuelled by the rise of the right-wing settler movement and the governments that have enabled and encouraged that. And of course those actions have had consequences as well.

And the notion that Hamas are somehow noble freedom fighters is completely simplistic and utterly wrong. Hamas clearly don't care one bit for their fellow Palestinian. In fact, as we're seeing now, they see hem as collateral damage in a wider ideological struggle financed and fuelled by the religious fanatics in Iran (who aren't even Arabs). The more innocents who die, the more they run their hands in glee and capitalise on it via their propagenda.
To say his words are moronic, ridiculous and totally ignorant are nonsense. Zionists were using violence against the British Mandate and therefore British governance and its forces from the early 40's onward. All in order to establish a Jewish state by force. Democratic?. They used violence to gain UN support/vote in the first place.
 
Israel doesn't want to make amends or make Peace and I don't think you want them to either.
How disingenuous. If Arabs (broadly speaking as it isn't all Arabs)wanted peace, placed down their weapons there would be peace.

Whereas if Israel placed down its weapons there would likely be another holocaust, and you know this !
 
How disingenuous. If Arabs (broadly speaking as it isn't all Arabs)wanted peace, placed down their weapons there would be peace.

Whereas if Israel placed down its weapons there would likely be another holocaust, and you know this !

Do you not see the irony of more and more Jewish people moving there and stating that there will be another holocaust?

If that's true why not take steps to avoid it.

By inciting more violence with its oppressive apartheid system Israel paradoxically makes that more of a reality.

Why not make peace and share the land?
 
Do you not see the irony of more and more Jewish people moving there and stating that there will be another holocaust?

If that's true why not take steps to avoid it.

By inciting more violence with its oppressive apartheid system Israel paradoxically makes that more of a reality.

Why not make peace and share the land?
How do you "make peace" with people whose proclaimed and unashamed aim is to wipe you out?
 
Do you not see the irony of more and more Jewish people moving there and stating that there will be another holocaust?

If that's true why not take steps to avoid it.

By inciting more violence with its oppressive apartheid system Israel paradoxically makes that more of a reality.

Why not make peace and share the land?
And yet the people who stayed within the country when the the Arab armies ordered them out now enjoy full rights of being Israeli nationals. They are in the Knesset, the judicial system etc, etc.

Do you not see the irony in constantly veering from truth into opinion ?
 
And yet the people who stayed within the country when the the Arab armies ordered them out now enjoy full rights of being Israeli nationals. They are in the Knesset, the judicial system etc, etc.

Do you not see the irony in constantly veering from truth into opinion ?

So Israel would have no problem incorporating other Arabs as citizens and becoming a 50/50 split or majority Arab state then?

Why doesn't it?
 

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