I can't watch any news coverage anymore.
I can't tell fact from propaganda.
I'm getting pissed off with the gaslighting from various Israeli speakers attacking news agencies as "supporters of terrorism" for having the audacity to challenge their answers.
And it’s not as if there was all of a sudden an influx of Jews from zero into ‘Palestine’.
Before the Great War there were around 100,000 Jews living there. Palestinians didn’t even have a legal status as citizens under Ottoman rule and whereas Jews did.
That’s nuance that is often missed. This wasn't exactly their land (Palestinians), never was.
It will have to involve the wider world getting involved, I would agree.I won’t be impossible but I think this situation has far more extremes to it than Northern Ireland. Both in ideology and hatred, as well as actions and deaths.
Don’t forget, many of the people involved in the peace talks for Northern Ireland were from the British and Irish governments, neither of which were situated nor lived in Northern Ireland. Whereas here, it’s solely entrenched with everyone who lives in the region.
If disease gets into Gaza as a result of Israeli policy and the worst happens, then their will be dire consequences for decades to come.For a start this a discussion forum, if you can’t see that violence and brutality are not the answers for either Israeli or Palestinians then you are indeed trapped in an unending cycle
I fear it’s going to take a lot more innocent lives to make all of you see the futility of it all
It’s heartbreaking to watch this unfold but this maybe the war that ends it all, I doubt it though
I think you'll find that far more Muslims have been murdered by their fellow Muslims than by Jews.It might be because people that share their religion are systematically abused and murdered by Israelis, and can therefore empathise with them, they may even feel that bar an accident of postcode they themselves may be abused or murdered, systematically.
Hundreds more Hamas terrorist bases struck. Anyone else amazed that Isreal know the location of all these bases day in day out? Or can we assume some bomb strikes are just guesses and the civilians killed are just casualties of this guessing?
Once a blue and all that mate. Glad Starmer has joined me ;)
I'd not seen that quote but Zangwill (for it was he) once thought the land was virtually empty - "an almost uninhabited, forsaken and ruined Turkish territory" (1902) but within a couple of years (1904) he was a bit more realistic: "Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States", arguing that the choice then for the Zionists was driving the Arabs out or dealing with a large alien population (and for a while he suggested establishing a Jewish homeland somewhere else). Others justified moving the Arabs to other Arab countries because the Palestinians were essentially nomads (and of course the Jews combined remembering their nomadic origins with the settling into "the promised land" - "A wandering Aramean was my father..."),All of that is correct.
But there was always the intention by Zionists moving to Palestine or involved in the planning to carve out a piece of the territory.
The below passage was written just after the first world war. The sentiment is still shared by some Zionists on here.
'The Arabs should recognize that the road of renewed national glory lies through Baghdad, Damascus and Mecca, and all the vast territories freed for them from the Turks and be content. ... The powers that freed them have surely the right to ask them not to grudge the petty strip (Israel) necessary for the renaissance of a still more down-trodden people.'
Palestinian Arabs do not need self-determination because they can have it in another Arab State.
It will have to involve the wider world getting involved, I would agree.
However the current actions of the present Israeli government, regardless of their ‘right to defend themselves’, is going to set back the chances of Middle East peace and any reconciliation for perhaps decades.
If the humanitarian catastrophe that we envisage from lack of food and clean water, actually happens, then they are copper fastening, the faith of not only the Palestinians, but their own nation too.
They will forever be reviled on a much wider scale worldwide if they bring on the innocent deaths of such numbers through policy choices.
Look at history. I know they have no consideration other than their own history, but let the world look and learn.
I’ll drop this here for perusal. It’s a reasonable summation although I’d probably add a tweak or two myself. A lot happened before and after.
It happened in the 1840’s to 1850’s but you could argue we are still seeing the consequences today.
Israel seem hell bent on saying we are right and we will do what we like.
There will be massive consequences.
I’ve no problem with not forgetting. If you don acknowledge the past you risk making the same mistakes unwillingly if not willingly.Someone once said the trouble is the British never remember and the Irish never forget
I think the same could be said about this conflict
The Jews escaped slavery in Egypt, spent 40 years in the Wilderness because they didn't believe God would give them victory over the people in the land they were told to occupy, then did force out the original population of Canaan (with a bit of genocide), then became Israel ruled by judges, then had a king (though God told them they'd regret it) and under Solomon expanded their territory. Eventually the kingdom split between Israel and Judea, the Assyrians took over Israel in 721 BC and the Babylonians took over Judea in 586 BC and the people (at least the leaders) went into Exile. The Persian king Cyrus let them return to Jerusalem and after various times of being in charge or being under foreign empires, they became a "licensed religion" under the Romans but a failed rebellion saw them (nearly all) dispersed from the area (the Diaspora), and flourishing all over the world - but faced persecution in many places leading to demands in the 19th century for somewhere for the Jews to live, either just those fleeing persecution or all Jews, either in Palestine (as the place had been known for two millennia) or somewhere else (different varieties of Zionism).Sorry for naivety but there has been a question on my mind for years and I'm hoping the enlightened on here can help me. I know google exists but even then I don't seem able to resolve my confusion.
Question... I keep hearing that the state of Israel never existed before the end of the second world war and a lot of todays war is about the creation and existence of Israel. Well when I did RE in junior school I kept hearing about how Israel the Jews) was at war with the Arabs, I kept hearing about the Israelites (FFS Desmond Decker even made a pop song over it) so in my mind Israel has been around since at least the birth of Christ... so how come the Arabs can object to Israel existing? Surely even they have to acknowledge that Israel has been in existence for thousands of years.... as for Palestine???/
I'm a complete dilettante when it comes to this subject, but from what I read that particular region of the world; The Levant, was once home to the Judean peoples, so whilst the state of Israel didn't exist in body a millennia ago, it did exist as a spiritual homeland for Jews.Sorry for naivety but there has been a question on my mind for years and I'm hoping the enlightened on here can help me. I know google exists but even then I don't seem able to resolve my confusion.
Question... I keep hearing that the state of Israel never existed before the end of the second world war and a lot of todays war is about the creation and existence of Israel. Well when I did RE in junior school I kept hearing about how Israel the Jews) was at war with the Arabs, I kept hearing about the Israelites (FFS Desmond Decker even made a pop song over it) so in my mind Israel has been around since at least the birth of Christ... so how come the Arabs can object to Israel existing? Surely even they have to acknowledge that Israel has been in existence for thousands of years.... as for Palestine???/
Or it might be because they all have being Muslim in common.
So fucking what?I think you'll find that far more Muslims have been murdered by their fellow Muslims than by Jews.
And more Jews have been killed by so called Christians, where is this going?They forget more Muslims die at the hands of other Muslims because they don’t share the same warped idea as the next death cult than anyone else.
No, it’s the fault of the Jews.
And more Jews have been killed by so called Christians, where is this going?