Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Eebo said:
Why don't Israel give in to terror?

And I don't know if you have had time stop posting on here and check the news reports, but it is actually Israel that is dropping the bombs and causing the suffering in Gaza, not Hamas, so stop stop talking shite.
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Asking somebody to stop talking shite whilst talking bigger shite is well quite frankly, a load of shite.
 
Eebo said:
You could say exactly the same about what Israel is doing now. Get your own people to be victims of terror? Is that the Israeli strategy?
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The Israeli strategy is to respond with overwhelming force to any attack in the hope that no one is fucking stupid enough to attack them.
 
I'm not sure whether the aims of Revisionist Zionism are still openly pursued within the various factions in Israel, but it's obvious that "from the river to the sea" is not just to be associated with Hamas and their 1988 "genocidal" Charter. Revisionist Zionism was aimed at colonising* Palestine not just from the sea to the river but beyond the river (both sides of the Jordan)... and hoping that the British under the Mandate would facilitate establishment of a Jewish majority (after which everyone would live in peace).

* Their description of the policy
 
It's all turned upside down, there are more reasonable voices coming out of Israel than it can be heard from our own politics/media narrative. This dude actually fought Hamas inside Gaza tunnels back in 2014, but I suppose Sir Keir would kick out anybody from the Labour party for this kind of talk.

 
SamBlue said:
It's all turned upside down, there are more reasonable voices coming out of Israel than it can be heard from our own politics/media narrative. This dude actually fought Hamas inside Gaza tunnels back in 2014, but I suppose Sir Keir would kick out anybody from the Labour party for this kind of talk.

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Speaking of 2014, here's a very interesting article from that very year courtesy of Vanity Fair.

Did Israel Avert a Hamas Massacre?

The story behind the Gaza tunnel plot, from Israeli intelligence officials—and Hamas leader Khalid Mishal.

 
Palerider said:
Hamas have a sworn aim to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews living there. Do you think giving in to Hamas is an option?
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Hamas has no hope of destroying Israel or killing all the Jews living there. Israel is way to powerful as is its main ally.

On the other hand Israel is capable of destroying Gaza as we are seeing and if they feel like it all the Palestinians living there.
 

What Hamas Wants​

The straightforward explanation that the experts missed. Great article from The Atlantic. How long have Hamas been planning October 7th 2023 really? What did the Israeli's (security services) know and when did they know it?

By Yair Rosenberg

“Did Israel Avert a Hamas Massacre?” That was the question posed by the headline of a Vanity Fair exposé published in October 2014. The investigative report laid out a sophisticated plot by the Islamist terror group to kill and kidnap Israelis on the Gaza border. The plan: to use underground tunnels to infiltrate nearby civilian enclaves on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year, when the communities would be at their most vulnerable. As one intelligence source put it, the operation had two goals: “First, get in and massacre people in a village. Pull off something they could show on television. Second, the ability to kidnap soldiers and civilians using the tunnels would give them a great bargaining chip.”

 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This assumption that using the sledgehammer approach is the only viable option is pitifully simplistic, just like it was after 9/11.

Israel has been suckered in by Hamas, who have got the exact response they wanted.
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Been trying to tell people this, they really don't care how many civilians die it's all grist to the propaganda mill, mark my words Iran and others are using this to grow their influence around the region, which is very dangerous for stability in the region

It's been my opinion from day one that this is a trap carefully set, they knew exactly what the response would have been, even if they had only hit military targets, the consensus of opinion from around the world are that Israels war aims are far to ambitious although understandable and it's going to lead them to a very long term commitment i.e occupation and counter insurgency thus costing resources and manpower, and remember there are over 2 million souls who live there, occupation means you have to look after them, they could go for the genocide option but does anyone seriously think that they would be allowed to do that? The transfer of the population has already been ruled out by the Americans it would just cause so much trouble for everyone

You also have the humanitarian situation, what if there is a cholera outbreak that rips through the area, it's a total cluster fuck from the start
 
halfcenturyup said:
It's not an opinion that there was more than one response available to the situation for the Israelis. It's a fact.

I do have opinions about why they chose this particular course of action, and when I expound them I will say it's an opinion.
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The Israeli's absolutely had a range of options open to them after the attack on Oct 7th, but this wasn't the point in question. It was for alternatives to the current course of action being used by Israel for the removal of Hamas. As they would be suggestions they couldn't be anything else other than opinions at this point.
 
Ducado said:
It's been my opinion from day one that this is a trap carefully set,
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You're not alone. Here's an archived article from The Atlantic dated October 13th 2023.

Conclusion: "Israel seems ready to jump right into the briar patch."

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap​

Storming into Gaza will fulfill Hamas’s wish. [and also Iran's]
By Hussein Ibish

 
A bit of an eye opening response to the IDF narrative on Oct 7th using Israeli media sources:

 
Roachy said:
The Israeli's absolutely had a range of options open to them after the attack on Oct 7th, but this wasn't the point in question. It was for alternatives to the current course of action being used by Israel for the removal of Hamas. As they would be suggestions they couldn't be anything else other than opinions at this point.
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OK. I don't really know where you are going with this. Maybe it's my fault. I assumed, when you asked someone who disapproved of the Israeli action what they would do, you were one of those who think there is no alternative. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Still don't know what you were talking about with deleted messages, though.

Nevertheless, happy to leave it there in the interest of friendly debate.
 
halfcenturyup said:
OK. I don't really know where you are going with this. Maybe it's my fault. I assumed, when you asked someone who disapproved of the Israeli action what they would do, you were one of those who think there is no alternative. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Still don't know what you were talking about with deleted messages, though.

Nevertheless, happy to leave it there in the interest of friendly debate.
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No apologies required, let's hope some sense of peace return to this region for all involved.
 
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