Middle East Conflict

[Bluemoon_420]

It's amazing how certain posters have a different take on what they post on the Russia/Ukraine thread to this One. Staggering tbh.

Yeah and I think we all know why ;)

 

[Vic]

Many Jews are secular and some are atheist but they are still Jews, it’s racial not religious

Hard to say it's not religious when the claim to the land is based on what G-d said 3000 years ago.

 

[philiph20]

As far as I'm concerned the US is complicit in this mass slaughter and Biden is directly responsible.
While I think Trump is an abomination I hope Biden loses.
This will be a collective punishment on the population of America.

And so are our rancid government and the silence from the opposition is appalling.

 

[robbieh]

British occupation of India was primarily administrative with a economic motive. It was not colonised by settlers.
The Israeli situation is more skin to the formation of the USA and Australia where mass movement from Europe took place. These two places were lightly populated but still needed to be brought under control through violence.
Israel has a tougher job on its hands due to the shear number of Palestinians present. The stays quo has always been violence, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Living in a state where you know you're not wanted, have to build walls everywhere, and live in a highly charged atmosphere doesn't seem to me great.

It wasn't well thought out from the start and I consider it a failed experiment.

But the state of Israel exists and somehow the world has to resolve this. However with the parlous state of the leadership of Israel, Hamas, the US and to be frank the wider world, hope is in short supply.

 

[robbieh]

Oh bless.
Hopefully the population of Israel will see Netanyahu for what he is and ditch him and his like ASAP. Actions have consequences - as Hamas are finding out at the moment. I presume your totally happy with Hamas kicking this war off then?

War. You keep saying this. The war has been ongoing since the forties.
Battle.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Well it's been going on since the mid 1940s - I can't see it ending any time soon without turning the whole world into a nuclear wasteland either.

Better get to Aldi's quick then.

 

[Ducado]

Hard to say it's not religious when the claim to the land is basd on what G-d said 3000 years ago.

Well kind of, but you could look at it from a ethnic perspective, the Jewish people had a homeland lost it, but somehow managed to carry on as a separate ethnicity whereas other populations tended to fully assimilate both culturally and religiously, I guess faith helped

That the Jews needed a safe place to live after thousands of years of persecution and in particular after the 2nd World war

It’s also forgotten that there were many large Jewish communities in the Islamic world, most were forced out with no compensation and lost everything

There are two peoples with years of hurt between them, there needs to be reconciliation and redemption for both otherwise we are just going to carry on with this death spiral

I also feel that both are being used by other groups and countries for various reasons

 

[Ducado]

Can you imagine any other country in the west acting like this? I couldn’t because it’s counterproductive and is clearly vengeance rather than justice, could you imagine if the British Government had carried out this policy in Northern Ireland? I think the Americans would have something to say

Israeli police tear down family home of 13-year-old Palestinian who killed border force guard​

The Israeli police have carried out an operation requiring multiple officers to tear down the home of 13-year-old Palestinian Muhammad Zalbani, who stabbed and killed a border force guard earlier this year.
"Kudos to the Israel Police and MGB fighters for implementing my policy and that of the commissioner and destroying the family home of the terrorist Muhammad Zalbani," national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said.
"The Israeli police will continue to act with all their might against those damned terrorists and against their family."
Staff Sergeant Asil Sawaed was stabbed and killed by Muhammad Zalbani in east Jerusalem in February, with Israel announcing its intention to demolish his family home in August in order to help "parents to discourage kids from committing attacks".
The boy's family home is in Shuafat refugee camp north of Jerusalem, and videos from Palestinian news outlets appear to show columns of armed Israeli police marching through the camp.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

I presume your totally happy with Hamas kicking this war off then?

It’s you’re, and not your…You’re welcome again.

Please enlighten me as to why I’d be happy for Hamas to be “kicking off this war”, when we all knew how Israel would react based on their penchant for mass slaughter of Palestinians historically, for far less?

What your simple mind doesn’t seem able (or want) to comprehend is this didn’t happen in a vacuum.

There would be no Hamas if the Palestinians were treated with dignity and fairness in the first place rather than what we have seen for 75 years and are seeing right now.

 

[Palerider]

The "they did this, so we did that" dialogue surrounding this whole shit show is horrendous.

I spoke to a young man today who can only see one side. I wanted to scream at him, but my job means I have to remain impartial.

The whole thing needs both parties allowing an arbitrator to put into place the foundations of something/anything that makes things better than this.

Didn't the UN create borders in the 1940's? Without removing the extremists who have absolutely no interest in living next to their sworn enemies then there is no hope. We are simply going around in circles.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

This is nearly 10 years old, but more relevant than ever.

Some genius lines in this:

 

[Palerider]

Can you imagine any other country in the west acting like this? I couldn’t because it’s counterproductive and is clearly vengeance rather than justice, could you imagine if the British Government had carried out this policy in Northern Ireland? I think the Americans would have something to say

Israeli police tear down family home of 13-year-old Palestinian who killed border force guard​

The Israeli police have carried out an operation requiring multiple officers to tear down the home of 13-year-old Palestinian Muhammad Zalbani, who stabbed and killed a border force guard earlier this year.
"Kudos to the Israel Police and MGB fighters for implementing my policy and that of the commissioner and destroying the family home of the terrorist Muhammad Zalbani," national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said.
"The Israeli police will continue to act with all their might against those damned terrorists and against their family."
Staff Sergeant Asil Sawaed was stabbed and killed by Muhammad Zalbani in east Jerusalem in February, with Israel announcing its intention to demolish his family home in August in order to help "parents to discourage kids from committing attacks".
The boy's family home is in Shuafat refugee camp north of Jerusalem, and videos from Palestinian news outlets appear to show columns of armed Israeli police marching through the camp.

Not knocking you personally as loads of posters are doing the same (possibly me included) but this is akin to tabloid journalism.

I'll try and explain, if I owned a newspaper and wanted to demonise United (and why not) then what I would do is pick all the negative stories about United and print them and keep printing them and keep printing them (nothing positive just negative after negative). Eventually that negative image will 'influence' the readers and United will be thought of negatively (Yipee).

 

[robbieh]

And so are our rancid government and the silence from the opposition is appalling.

To be fair we are just lapdogs and have no muscle in this. Starmer and Sunak probably think it's better to just go along with the Americans than rock the boat.
However you are correct.

 

[Kippax77]

Not knocking you personally as loads of posters are doing the same (possibly me included) but this is akin to tabloid journalism.

I'll try and explain, if I owned a newspaper and wanted to demonise United (and why not) then what I would do is pick all the negative stories about United and print them and keep printing them and keep printing them (nothing positive just negative after negative). Eventually that negative image will 'influence' the readers and United will be thought of negatively (Yipee).

So just like in the real world of tabloid journalism but with City

 

[Ducado]

Not knocking you personally as loads of posters are doing the same (possibly me included) but this is akin to tabloid journalism.

I'll try and explain, if I owned a newspaper and wanted to demonise United (and why not) then what I would do is pick all the negative stories about United and print them and keep printing them and keep printing them (nothing positive just negative after negative). Eventually that negative image will 'influence' the readers and United will be thought of negatively (Yipee).

Are you saying it didn’t happen? Or if it did happen it had nothing to do with the ongoing conflict? The report was from an Israeli newspaper by the way

 

[bluethrunthru]

Are you saying it didn’t happen? Or if it did happen it had nothing to do with the ongoing conflict? The report was from an Israeli newspaper by the way

Its been going on for years. Illegal settlers are taking advantage of the fighting to occupy more territory in Gaza evicting the rightful occupiers of that land and knocking down their homes. That is getting very little coverage but is simply a continuation of what has gone before with illegal settlement being overlooked by the authorities.
That has kept the pot bubbling for years and has provided HAMAS and Hezbollah with a steady stream of recruits to sustain their struggles against Israel. If you could crank the clock back prior to 7th Oct and spoken to all the men who were about to attack Israel about their motivation to be doing this............... yep I'd imagine 99% of them will have had some sort of personal loss or involvement with Israeli authority and thats what motivates them.
As for the actions of Israel now - the security forces and Netanyahu were caught off guard and failed with their first duty to protect Israel and its citizens. The desire for revenge has enabled a long held strategy to be enacted - the full annexation and occupation of GAZA. The explanation that the intention is to destroy HAMAS and drive Palestinians off the land South into Egypt ( whether Egypt wants them or not ) and the subsequent announcement that Israel intends to retain responsibility for the security of GAZA for an unspecified length of time means they have gone from counter attack through revenge to full annexation and the world does nothing. We are in appeasement time - if Sunak goes there expect him to come back with a signed piece of paper assuring peace in the Middle East. All this is doing now is reinforcing recruitment across the Arab world against Israel and confirming Israel will never be a safe haven for Jews.
I expect the march at the weekend to go off largely without issue. The right wing agitators are trying to stoke up their foot soldiers to go to London and start trouble under the guise of "defence" but rather like the ULEZ protest they tried to stoke up ( There I just mentioned it but I think I'll get away with it ) which turned out to be a damp squib so will this. Not least because most of the people who may be anti march will be at home in Lincoln, Louth and Loughbrough will be busy at home preparing for their own Remembrance Day parades to go down to London to start a fight at Bravermans bidding.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Can you imagine any other country in the west acting like this? I couldn’t because it’s counterproductive and is clearly vengeance rather than justice, could you imagine if the British Government had carried out this policy in Northern Ireland? I think the Americans would have something to say

Israeli police tear down family home of 13-year-old Palestinian who killed border force guard​

The Israeli police have carried out an operation requiring multiple officers to tear down the home of 13-year-old Palestinian Muhammad Zalbani, who stabbed and killed a border force guard earlier this year.
"Kudos to the Israel Police and MGB fighters for implementing my policy and that of the commissioner and destroying the family home of the terrorist Muhammad Zalbani," national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said.
"The Israeli police will continue to act with all their might against those damned terrorists and against their family."
Staff Sergeant Asil Sawaed was stabbed and killed by Muhammad Zalbani in east Jerusalem in February, with Israel announcing its intention to demolish his family home in August in order to help "parents to discourage kids from committing attacks".
The boy's family home is in Shuafat refugee camp north of Jerusalem, and videos from Palestinian news outlets appear to show columns of armed Israeli police marching through the camp.

I think Oliver Cromwell got there a bit earlier. But we don’t hold a grudge. All forgotten now.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think Oliver Cromwell got there a bit earlier. But we don’t hold a grudge. All forgotten now.

Oh good, we’ll all be able to move on in 400 years…

 

[dublinblue12]

I think Oliver Cromwell got there a bit earlier. But we don’t hold a grudge. All forgotten now.

Ti's in its bollocks all forgotten about :)

 

[Ducado]

I think Oliver Cromwell got there a bit earlier. But we don’t hold a grudge. All forgotten now.

What do they say

The Irish never forget and the English never remember, but there is the blue print in relationships between the two peoples for this conflict