Middle East Conflict

[BayernMan]

They will be eliminated eventually

Why not now? Do you think they will host get to another World Cup before or after that?

 

[BlueAnorak]

Does that justify the killing of those civilians? Not in my book.

Not in my book either and the US should be stamping down to bring them to heel. But for whatever reason the IDF is continuing. Perhaps they know they have unconditional support from Republicans. Who knows - I certainly don't.
I'm sure Hamas is exaggerating claims too but it is happening.
There is a problem in the IDF that needs to be resolved but Netanyahu ialsnt going to stop it. Shockingly 47% of Israeli Jews don't care either.
CORRECTION: 43%

 

[remember arthur mann]

Wanton destruction, evil people.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I’m not insulting you, I’m genuinely concerned about the clear signs of cognitive dissonance and sociopathic traits that you’ve shown throughout this thread.

There’s a big difference between Israel defending itself and committing outright genocide. Even in the unlikely event Israel get rid of Hamas, the atrocities they’ve committed while doing so will not be forgotten and the next iteration will be far worse. You’re just too blinkered to see that living under occupation, being dehumanised on a daily basis, and seeing your loved ones slaughtered would cause mental illness and violence in anyone. Yet you only focus only on the violent outcomes from these people. If you look at any historically oppressed peoples they'll have violently lashed out at some point.

If you can say you’d never resort to extreme violence after having your home destroyed, your entire family wiped out then you’re a fool or a liar. It's enough to cause anyone serious psychological issues. Does it excuse Hamas killing innocents, hell no, but context is critical.

Regarding the political parties in this country, these are the same mainstream parties that sanctioned the war in Iraq under false pretences, and countless other scandals… yeah real bastions of morality them!

Like me and many others have stated little Rishi and Co. have blood on their hands and fully complicit in the Israeli war crimes we see unfolding. Their moral compass is broken and so is anyone else’s that excuses the collective punishment we’re witnessing.

I’ll use this post to update on the couple of sources I was checking out.
One is Scott Ritter and I knew he was familiar. He was an ex USMarine intelligence officer and UN weapons inspector in the region. I won’t post the rant on YouTube however as he was also a convicted sex offender and quite a controversial character.
He was however the most prominent opposer to the Iraq war on the grounds that he professed that there were no WMD’s there and there was no grounds to go in.

He was outcast but later proven right but because of his conviction he remains totally on the outside.

He is very outspoken about Israel’s true intentions over a long period of time in regards to accepting a Palestinian state, but we’ll leave him out of here all the same.

Amira Hass on the other hand seems remarkably objective and I am determined to finish her interview and seek more of her material.

From what I’ve seen she claims that she draws no distinction between Israeli women and children killed at close hand, being shot in on the ground assaults and Palestinian women and children being killed in blanket bombings from the air.
She says that the Western outrage at one form of killing as opposed to the other is as much down to the fact one slaughter is of white western looking people like us and the other is just dark skinned Arab looking people.
Make of that what you will.
She’s easily findable on YouTube if you choose to follow what she has to say. Her credentials seem flawless for expertise in this area.

 

[Ducado]

Can anyone tell me what they think the Israeli exit strategy is? Because if they know can they let the Israelis and the world know, it would help if the right wing loons in charge would actually speak with one voice at the moment they are saying different things, perhaps it’s because they are flying blind

Get rid of Hamas, OK who will rule Gaza, Fatah? They have said no, the other Arab countries, not on your Nelly, the US and NATO absolutely no way would public opinion stand for it, so let’s say the Israelis reach their objective? Can they just withdraw and leave anarchy? The questions are mounting, the only option is to occupy the strip, but that will leave them responsible for two million people and occupation means resistance

I believe theses questions are being discussed all over the world, and in the cold light of day governments are realising that this is a huge mess and strategic error

The best hope of a way out is a comprehensive peace deal with a viable state for the Palestinians with a land link to Gaza, could the right wingers actually have given the Palestinians what they never wanted to give, because the other options are too painful to contemplate

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Can anyone tell me what they think the Israeli exit strategy is? Because if they know can they let the Israelis and the world know, it would help if the right wing loons in charge would actually speak with one voice at the moment they are saying different things, perhaps it’s because they are flying blind

Get rid of Hamas, OK who will rule Gaza, Fatah? They have said no, the other Arab countries, not on your Nelly, the US and NATO absolutely no way would public opinion stand for it, so let’s say the Israelis reach their objective? Can they just withdraw and leave anarchy? The questions are mounting, the only option is to occupy the strip, but that will leave them responsible for two million people and occupation mean resistance

I believe theses questions are being discussed all over the world, and in the cold light of day governments are realising that this is a huge mess and strategic error

The best hope of a way out is a comprehensive peace deal with a viable state for the Palestinians with a land link to Gaza, could the right wingers actually have given the Palestinians what they never wanted to give, because the other options are too painful to contemplate

What about the other option.
That niggling doubt that there isn’t an exit strategy and there won’t be 2 million people to cater for because they’ll be cleansed from the land and any rebuilding will be done for new settlers eventually, but will probably never happen because of the WW3 that just started.

It’s just another option.

 

[BayernMan]

Can anyone tell me what they think the Israeli exit strategy is? Because if they know can they let the Israelis and the world know, it would help if the right wing loons in charge would actually speak with one voice at the moment they are saying different things, perhaps it’s because they are flying blind

Get rid of Hamas, OK who will rule Gaza, Fatah? They have said no, the other Arab countries, not on your Nelly, the US and NATO absolutely no way would public opinion stand for it, so let’s say the Israelis reach their objective? Can they just withdraw and leave anarchy? The questions are mounting, the only option is to occupy the strip, but that will leave them responsible for two million people and occupation mean resistance

I believe theses questions are being discussed all over the world, and in the cold light of day governments are realising that this is a huge mess and strategic error

The best hope of a way out is a comprehensive peace deal with a viable state for the Palestinians with a land link to Gaza, could the right wingers actually have given the Palestinians what they never wanted to give, because the other options are too painful to contemplate

If their is true moral and political will to end this we are talking about a Dayton Agreement framework with the US/NATO as guarantors on top of a multi decade Marshall Plan commitment to Gaza and the West Bank. I don’t know how long or even if we get to that point but I hope it’s not far off….

 

[trueblue1972]

What about the other option.
That niggling doubt that there isn’t an exit strategy and there won’t be 2 million people to cater for because they’ll be cleansed from the land and any rebuilding will be done for new settlers eventually, but will probably never happen because of the WW3 that just started.

It’s just another option.

Not really, as if that's what they wanted it could have been done in 3 hours

 

[BayernMan]

Christ….

 

[dublinblue12]

that

Christ….

slaughter the human animals as some headcase said

 

[trueblue1972]

Christ….

To be fair, it has elements of accuracy

 

[Bluemoon_420]

I'm fine - I am just a realist.
Hamas really shouldn't of done what it did if it didn't want any come-back.
They did and the come-back is upon them. Israel has the right to stop Hamas.
It is fucking horrible what is happening to Civilians close to israeli Hamas targets - but Hamas do use Civilians as human shields.
Regardless of what I think though, Israeli politicians (all Jewish parties) truely believe this is an existential threat to Israel's existence and as such it will probably continue, whatever I, you or the collective West think.
I'm not even sure the US could stop them any time soon as the rage in Israel is palpable. Only the evacuation of Hamas fighters somewhere out of Gaza would work and I don't think Hamas would agree to that and I'm not sure any one would agree to take them.

Do you realise how dangerous a precedence this sets? It was Israel who decided the best way to take out a terror organisation was to indiscriminately bomb a city, killing thousands in the process, and displacing millions. At what point is it acceptable to start holding them culpable? Once a million are dead? Once the entire city is ethnically cleansed? Or have we decided that whatever consequences this point on, no matter the human cost or scale of suffering inflicted by those in the position of power, are infinitely the fault of Hamas?

Where’s the condemnation towards Israel from little Rishi and Co. for the illegal occupation, the settler terrorism, the WB apartheid, and the suffocating Gaza blockade? Where was the appropriate condemnation and action in response to that prior to Oct 7th? Or do we just consider that to be a palatable status quo. There was practically none prior to the terror attack, not only that but they were protected and absolved from any condemnation of it. What makes you think that'll change now or after Hamas are gone?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Does that justify the killing of those civilians? Not in my book.

It's not as if it's "a few" civilians. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of them. Its absolutely not on, under any circumstances. Those are not the actions of a supposed civilised state in the 21st century.

I remember when Saddam took hostages and used them as human shields. Did the coalition forces bomb the sites where they were held regardless of the circumstances. Did they fuck. Then again that was probably born out of humanity and not a blood lust. Have you noticed that HAMAS are holding hostages and every night IDF forces hit hundreds of targets and kill at least one HAMAS leader a night. Whats the chances they have done that and not killed any hostages too? Whats the chances they know that but won't reveal it?

 

[Ducado]

What about the other option.
That niggling doubt that there isn’t an exit strategy and there won’t be 2 million people to cater for because they’ll be cleansed from the land and any rebuilding will be done for new settlers eventually, but will probably never happen because of the WW3 that just started.

It’s just another option.

They have been told in no uncertain terms that this is line they can’t cross as much as they would like too

 

[BlueAnorak]

Can anyone tell me what they think the Israeli exit strategy is? Because if they know can they let the Israelis and the world know, it would help if the right wing loons in charge would actually speak with one voice at the moment they are saying different things, perhaps it’s because they are flying blind

Get rid of Hamas, OK who will rule Gaza, Fatah? They have said no, the other Arab countries, not on your Nelly, the US and NATO absolutely no way would public opinion stand for it, so let’s say the Israelis reach their objective? Can they just withdraw and leave anarchy? The questions are mounting, the only option is to occupy the strip, but that will leave them responsible for two million people and occupation means resistance

I believe theses questions are being discussed all over the world, and in the cold light of day governments are realising that this is a huge mess and strategic error

The best hope of a way out is a comprehensive peace deal with a viable state for the Palestinians with a land link to Gaza, could the right wingers actually have given the Palestinians what they never wanted to give, because the other options are too painful to contemplate

I have no idea. I'm not sure Israel knows either.
They certainly seem to be working on a decapitation strategy judging by the number of senior HAMAS leaders they've kiilled or have apparantly surrounded.
I suspect it could be as simple as take out as many Hamas fighters and leaders as they can, destroy as many missiles and tunnels as they can then depart leaving a wasteland behind for western charities and the UN to sort out.
I hope it isn't but it certainly could be.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

 

[dublinblue12]

Fair play to her

 

[Bluemoon_420]

To be fair, it has elements of accuracy

Yeah of course it does if you hold racist and dehumanising views towards Palestinians.

How is this any different to anti-Semitic cartoons published during the 1930’s in Europe? You’d be having kittens if something as vile as this was posted about Jewish/Israeli folk.

 

[inchy14]

Can anyone tell me what they think the Israeli exit strategy is? Because if they know can they let the Israelis and the world know, it would help if the right wing loons in charge would actually speak with one voice at the moment they are saying different things, perhaps it’s because they are flying blind

Get rid of Hamas, OK who will rule Gaza, Fatah? They have said no, the other Arab countries, not on your Nelly, the US and NATO absolutely no way would public opinion stand for it, so let’s say the Israelis reach their objective? Can they just withdraw and leave anarchy? The questions are mounting, the only option is to occupy the strip, but that will leave them responsible for two million people and occupation means resistance

I believe theses questions are being discussed all over the world, and in the cold light of day governments are realising that this is a huge mess and strategic error

The best hope of a way out is a comprehensive peace deal with a viable state for the Palestinians with a land link to Gaza, could the right wingers actually have given the Palestinians what they never wanted to give, because the other options are too painful to contemplate

There won’t be an exit strategy, they’ll push south, build a new border, populate the lads they’ve taken and just leave the Palestinian people in a smaller area.

 

[mexico1970]

Yeah of course it does if you hold racist and dehumanising views towards Palestinians.

How is this any different to anti-Semitic cartoons published during the 1930’s in Europe? You’d be having kittens if something as vile as this was posted about Jewish/Israeli folk.

Are Israel using citizens as human shields?