Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

[domalino]

You could say that about pretty much every terrorist incident over the last 30 years. Security forces aren’t going to stop every attack. Whether that’s through lack of intelligence or just general mistakes. If it was that easy to stop we wouldn’t have countless numbers of incidents.

Unless your saying they purposely let was 1400 people die? Hamas who are also funded and supported by countries like Iran aren’t going to make huge attacks obvious either

Most major terror attacks could have been prevented. 9/11 is literally infamous for the fact the CIA, NSA and FBI were too busy fighting amongst themselves, refusing to share intel and grandstanding, and if they’d just communicated like every other country’s intelligence agencies then it wouldn’t have happened.

We know Hamas were planning this out in the open in public, we know they built a replica kibbutz to practice attacking. Reuters breaks down in this article how Israel saw all of this and wrote it off as sabre rattling.

We know Israel was warned by Egypt, and Fiona Hill said on the news agents podcast this week that everyone involved in foreign affairs knew that Israel/Palestine was boiling up and primed to explode again.


I doubt anyone thinks Netenyahu et al. “Allowed” 1400 people to be slaughtered, but he took all of the attention away from Gaza with his corruption trials and judicial coup. Everyone from IDF to intelligence agencies were devoting at least part of their time and resources on monitoring and stopping the protests that’s been happening inside Israel against Netenyahu.

Complacency was certainly a factor too. Iron Dome has meant only a dozen Israelis were killed in Israel by Hamas over the last decade. They spent billions on a border wall that extended underground and they thought was impenetrable. This conflict, which brings so much death and misery to a Palestinians every day has been comparatively painless for Israel for a decade, they were able to get complacent. The IDF was moved mostly to near the West Bank to help protect illegal settlers stealing more land and put down opposition.

Israelis know all this, even the ultranationalists, and Netenyahu and half a dozen military and political people will face consequences from within Israel when the retribution is over.

How Hamas duped Israel as it planned devastating attack

While Israel was led to believe it was containing a war-weary Hamas by providing economic incentives to Gazan workers, the group's fighters were being trained and drilled, often in plain sight, a source close to Hamas said.

www.reuters.com

 

[domalino]

Well Israel certainly wouldn't have invaded if that atrocity hadn't happened.

Can you invade land that you’re already occupying?

 

[BlueAnorak]

Can you invade land that you’re already occupying?

Hamas just wanted to import arms and ammunition and other military equipment for their campaign go destroy Israel.
No suprise Israel imposed a blockade. which isn't occupation. Hamas could have cone to sn agreement at any time.
They didn't want to.

 

[domalino]

Hamas just wanted to import arms and ammunition and other military equipment for tgeir campaign go destroy Israel.
No suprise Israel imposed a blockade.

A blockade? Controlling what buildings can be built, total control of utilities, internet and telecommunications, controlling farming and food production, not allowing them to fish their own sea, Israeli military moving in and out daily, total control of all border crossings.

It’s not a blockade, it’s an occupation.

And on top of all that, on top of the endless human suffering it causes, it’s a complete fucking failure isn’t it? Because the weapons are still getting in.

 

[BlueAnorak]

A blockade? Controlling what buildings can be built, total control of utilities, internet and telecommunications, controlling farming and food production, not allowing them to fish their own sea, Israeli military moving in and out daily, total control of all border crossings.

It’s not a blockade, it’s an occupation.

And on top of all that, on top of the endless human suffering it causes, it’s a complete fucking failure isn’t it? Because the weapons are still getting in.

I'm sure Israel should just surrender in your book. Guess what?
It ain't going to happen.

 

[domalino]

I'm sure Israel should just surrender in your book. Guess what?
It ain't going to happen.

Well if we’re just putting words in each others mouths and pretending they represent the other…

I’m sure you’d like Palestine wiped off the map and Gaza and the West Bank to be annexed and their civilians driven from their land. Guess what?
It ain’t going to happen.

 

[domalino]

By the by @BlueAnorak, given the argument you had earlier with @cucumberman about how Israeli intelligence is just super duper good and no one could ever have seen 7/10 coming because Hamas are totally off grid(an argument you made solely to justify the bombing of civilians no less) you should read that Reuters article I posted above.

The one with 3 IDF sources that detail how Hamas prepared for this attack completely in the open, including building a model village to stage practice attacks on.

So, so “off grid”.

 

[jacko74]

You could say that about pretty much every terrorist incident over the last 30 years. Security forces aren’t going to stop every attack. Whether that’s through lack of intelligence or just general mistakes. If it was that easy to stop we wouldn’t have countless numbers of incidents.

Unless your saying they purposely let was 1400 people die? Hamas who are also funded and supported by countries like Iran aren’t going to make huge attacks obvious either

As I've already said this was nothing like a typical terrorist attack, this was more like a full scale military invasion involving 3000 participants in what ws already one of the most active zones of conflict with one of the most heavily militarised and monitored borders on the planet.

It wasn't a dozen blokes with plane tickets and Stanley blades boarding routine passenger flights in the middle of a safe and secure country.

Who's to say what any government is capable of in order to achieve their particular aims, including sacrificing the lives of some of their own citizens? Particularly a government as ideologically extreme as the zionists controlling Israel who openly despise a section of their own citizens.

 

[Ducado]

I'm sure Israel should just surrender in your book. Guess what?
It ain't going to happen.

No it’s not but long term it can’t go on like this, it’s enemies are getting stronger and the geopolitical situation is changing, there’s a certain arrogance about the Israeli right wing because they know they have Americas protection, but it’s a risk things are changing there as well, younger generations don’t have the emotional attachment that older generations had

Plus there is the economic impact, perpetual war is an expensive business for a country with few natural resources

 

[Mon Autre]

Here is a thought imagine Hammas were to say we've fucked up and realised that this wasn't the way to get peace for our peolple how about we disarm ourselves and hand over the hostages in return for negotiations around a table and a new isrealis govememt ,think of the pressure that would put on isreal

Unfortunately Netanyahu wants someone like Hamas in control of Gaza and Hamas wants someone like Netanyahu in charge of Israel so that they can each give the other an excuse to pursue their own violent aims.

 

[MCFC_ Phil]

A blockade? Controlling what buildings can be built, total control of utilities, internet and telecommunications, controlling farming and food production, not allowing them to fish their own sea, Israeli military moving in and out daily, total control of all border crossings.

It’s not a blockade, it’s an occupation.

And on top of all that, on top of the endless human suffering it causes, it’s a complete fucking failure isn’t it? Because the weapons are still getting in.

Mate, he's never going to get it. Your just wasting your time with some people. He needs a history lesson.

 

[dublinblue12]

Has China invaded Taiwan yet because we all know where this is heading. God help our kids

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

As I've already said this was nothing like a typical terrorist attack, this was more like a full scale military invasion involving 3000 participants in what ws already one of the most active zones of conflict with one of the most heavily militarised and monitored borders on the planet.

It wasn't a dozen blokes with plane tickets and Stanley blades boarding routine passenger flights in the middle of a safe and secure country.

Who's to say what any government is capable of in order to achieve their particular aims, including sacrificing the lives of some of their own citizens? Particularly a government as ideologically extreme as the zionists controlling Israel who openly despise a section of their own citizens.

So you’re saying the Israeli government purposely sacrificed nearly 2000 innocent people in order to achieve their goals? Do you have any facts/ evidence that show that? Or is just conspiracy theories.

Of course it wasn’t a standard terrorist attack - whatever that’s meant to be. It doesn’t mean they could 100% have stopped it from happening. Whether that’s through mistakes or not.

You can have the most heavily armoured/ protects cities and there will still be attacks. Of course the isreali army could have done more to stop it, but the blame for me lies with the people who carried it out - Hamas

Get rid of the isreali government and Hamas and that’s a good start

 

[BlueAnorak]

By the by @BlueAnorak, given the argument you had earlier with @cucumberman about how Israeli intelligence is just super duper good and no one could ever have seen 7/10 coming because Hamas are totally off grid(an argument you made solely to justify the bombing of civilians no less) you should read that Reuters article I posted above.

The one with 3 IDF sources that detail how Hamas prepared for this attack completely in the open, including building a model village to stage practice attacks on.

So, so “off grid”.

Dif you actually read what I wrote and the Israelli intellegence failure link I put up.?
Clearly not.
Hamas was practicing and Israel knew that.
What Isreal DIDN'T KNOW was when it would happen all the planning as to when was off-grid amongst a small number if people only using private face to face meetings. Indeed Hamas units didn't know the operation was on till minutes before the go order. The planning was the 'off-grid' bit.
All other Israeli sources of human intellegence indicated that everything was quiet.
Wanting there to be an Israeli ulterior motive for the subsequent bombing and invasion and their actually being one are two different things.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Mate, he's never going to get it. Your just wasting your time with some people. He needs a history lesson.

You lot need a dose of reality.
Political correction indoctrination and mass online pile ons don't work with me I'm afraid.
Though it does amuse me that you keep trying.

 

[domalino]

Dif you actually read what I wrote and the Israelli intellegence failure link I put up.?
Clearly not.
Hamas was practicing and Israel knew that.
What Isreal DIDN'T KNOW was when it would happen all the planning as to when was off-grid amongst a small number if people only using private face to face meetings. Indeed Hamas units didn't know the operation was on till minutes before the go order. The planning was the 'off-grid' bit.
All other Israeli sources of human intellegence indicated that everything was quiet.
Wanting there to be an Israeli ulterior motive for the subsequent bombing and invasion and their actually being one are two different things.

You’re right, Nothing says “off the grid” like practicing a military assault on a model kibbutz out in the open.

That’s part of the planning by the way…

 

[BlueAnorak]

Did you know Hamas are a proscribed terrorist organisation dedicated to Jihad and wiping Israel off the face of the map and murdering all Jews in Israel in the process?
I only ask because the way some of you trot out platitudes, you'd think they were an organisation dedicated to peace and love.

 

[jacko74]

So you’re saying the Israeli government purposely sacrificed nearly 2000 innocent people in order to achieve their goals? Do you have any facts/ evidence that show that? Or is just conspiracy theories.

Of course it wasn’t a standard terrorist attack - whatever that’s meant to be. It doesn’t mean they could 100% have stopped it from happening. Whether that’s through mistakes or not.

You can have the most heavily armoured/ protects cities and there will still be attacks. Of course the isreali army could have done more to stop it, but the blame for me lies with the people who carried it out - Hamas

Get rid of the isreali government and Hamas and that’s a good start

No I'm not saying the Israeli government purposely sacrificed 2000 lives, I have heard that even the Hamas leadership have been astounded at the "success" of their operation in terms of the number of victims murdered and hostages taken and the ease with which it was carried out almost entirely unopposed.

I am saying it's almost incredulous that the Israeli intelligence services had absolutely zero knowledge that some form of large scale cross border invasion was in the offing.

I certainly agree with your last sentence.

 

[BlueAnorak]

You’re right, Nothing says “off the grid” like practicing a military assault on a model kibbutz out in the open.

That’s part of the planning by the way…

Knowing they have the capability is one thing knowing when they'll use it is quite another.
The British army train on Salisbury Plain and the North Yorkhire Moors on HOW to fight but only some people will know when it WILL be used and under WHAT circumstances.

 

[dublinblue12]

Hamas just wanted to import arms and ammunition and other military equipment for tgeir campaign go destroy Israel.
No suprise Israel imposed a blockade.

Hamas are not in control of the west bank. What's with the fairly cuntish behaviour in the Occupied west bank?

Ref:

Human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org