Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

[dublinblue12]

Only homosapien extinction will end this forever war. We like war..tick tock

Well if things carry on like this....

 

[BayernMan]

I appreciate his crude honesty

 

[halfcenturyup]

What were the alternatives, however ? I've sat and thought about it so many times a day , I hate what's happening, but it was predicable it was obvious from that day that Hammas did it knowing what would happen they don't care about innocent palestians being killed

I like you as a poster, you try to be fair in what must be a very difficult time for you. So I will give it a shot.

People in Hamas fall into four categories for me: the leaders in Qatar and Iran, the leaders in Gaza, the radicalised fighters in Gaza who would commit effective suicide for the cause, and the footsoldiers who rather wouldn't.

This is what I would have done IF the objective was to neutralise Hamas.

First, precision strikes on the leaders in Qatar and Iran. They have done it before.

Second, precision strikes on the leaders in Gaza whenever they put their heads out of their rabbit holes. The "decapitation" of Hamas will buy you some time to work on diplomacy before they get organised again.

Third, diplomacy towards: one, a two-state solution dependent on signing peace accords with the remaining Arab countries, and two: getting the US to do some "grown-up" diplomacy with Iran to cut-off the supply of funds and weapons to Hamas.

And what of the other two categories of fighters, you ask? The radicals will be slowly marginalised by a lack of leadership, funds and weapons, and the footsoldiers who really don't want to be martyrs will go back to their families.

Easie-peasie :)

But I don't think Netanyahu's objective is the elimination of Hamas as a threat, anyway. I suppose we will see.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Only homosapien extinction will end this forever war. We like war..tick tock

Enough Aldi's alcohol for you! :)

 

[Scottyboi]

Only homosapien extinction will end this forever war. We like war..tick tock

Let me guess, you're going shop again for more beer?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Let me guess, you're going shop again for more beer?

Might be Baileys now, seeing as though Christmas seems to have started.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The holocaust survivor explains that question

“Why did Hamas start it then?”

So obviously anti-Semitic.

 

[trueblue1972]

I like you as a poster, you try to be fair in what must be a very difficult time for you. So I will give it a shot.

People in Hamas fall into four categories for me: the leaders in Qatar and Iran, the leaders in Gaza, the radicalised fighters in Gaza who would commit effective suicide for the cause, and the footsoldiers who rather wouldn't.

This is what I would have done IF the objective was to neutralise Hamas.

First, precision strikes on the leaders in Qatar and Iran. They have done it before.

Second, precision strikes on the leaders in Gaza whenever they put their heads out of their rabbit holes. The "decapitation" of Hamas will buy you some time to work on diplomacy before they get organised again.

Third, diplomacy towards: one, a two-state solution dependent on signing peace accords with the remaining Arab countries, and two: getting the US to do some "grown-up" diplomacy with Iran to cut-off the supply of funds and weapons to Hamas.

And what of the other two categories of fighters, you ask? The radicals will be slowly marginalised by a lack of leadership, funds and weapons, and the footsoldiers who really don't want to be martyrs will go back to their families.

Easie-peasie :)

But I don't think Netanyahu's objective is the elimination of Hamas as a threat, anyway. I suppose we will see.

Hammas were still firing missiles at Israel . There are 10s of thousands of what is now to be shown as heavily weaponissed terrorists , just leaving them to do so would be further putting the security of isreali citizens in jepody ( the single reason that the prick was elected )
It would also send out a message of weakness Israel has had to defend itself since its independence and the single thing that has protected them from more attacks its that they have shown they are not to be fucked with . Not only from Hammas but many other groups who would love to see a sign of weakness come from Israel
That takes you to the landscape. I have lots of videos and pictures that show how lots of targets should be avoided have been used to launch attacks I don't post them on here as I don't wish to add to propaganda and just wish it could all stop and move to the negotiating table that you mentioned rather than spend time trying to prove something that deep down everyone realy knows.
Without clearing the sites somewhat entering on foot would have been suicide.
And the elimination of the leaders hiding in.there penthouses will no doubt happen later, priorities are closer to home right now , as you rightly said its not like they don't have form for that.
As bad as it is, and it seems the strikes could have been even more severe, there has been an element of procision.
As for what would happen at a negotiating table, we're probably very close to the outcomes we would wish for.
1 innocent palestian life is too much for me but again I point that they are of less 0 value to hammas ans Iran etc

 

[halfcenturyup]

Hammas were still firing missiles at Israel . There are 10s of thousands of what is now to be shown as heavily weaponissed terrorists , just leaving them to do so would be further putting the security of isreali citizens in jepody ( the single reason that the prick was elected )
It would also send out a message of weakness Israel has had to defend itself since its independence and the single thing that has protected them from more attacks its that they have shown they are not to be fucked with . Not only from Hammas but many other groups who would love to see a sign of weakness come from Israel
That takes you to the landscape. I have lots of videos and pictures that show how lots of targets should be avoided have been used to launch attacks I don't post them on here as I don't wish to add to propaganda and just wish it could all stop and move to the negotiating table that you mentioned rather than spend time trying to prove something that deep down everyone realy knows.
Without clearing the sites somewhat entering on foot would have been suicide.
And the elimination of the leaders hiding in.there penthouses will no doubt happen later, priorities are closer to home right now , as you rightly said its not like they don't have form for that.
As bad as it is, and it seems the strikes could have been even more severe, there has been an element of procision.
As for what would happen at a negotiating table, we're probably very close to the outcomes we would wish for.
1 innocent palestian life is too much for me but again I point that they are of less 0 value to hammas ans Iran etc

I suppose that is where we differ. I don't think you are strong by using overwhelming force disproportionately. You are weak. You are strong by taking bold steps to solve the underlying problem, especially when you are the vastly stronger party.

Which is why, as I said, I don't think Netanyahu has any interest in finding a peaceful solution to all this. And history tells us he won't find a violent solution either.

 

[trueblue1972]

I suppose that is where we differ. I don't think you are strong by using overwhelming force disproportionately. You are weak. You are strong by taking bold steps to solve the underlying problem, especially when you are the vastly stronger party.

Which is why, as I said, I don't think Netanyahu has any interest in finding a peaceful solution to all this. And history tells us he won't find a violent solution either.

Netanyahu needs to be and will be gone ASAP imho , but this won't be for a while with all this going on

 

[halfcenturyup]

Netanyahu needs to be and will be gone ASAP imho , but this won't be for a while with all this going on

True. Strange that, isn't it?

 

[trueblue1972]

True. Strange that, isn't it?

Not really,

 

[trueblue1972]

True. Strange that, isn't it?

Here is a thought imagine Hammas were to say we've fucked up and realised that this wasn't the way to get peace for our peolple how about we disarm ourselves and hand over the hostages in return for negotiations around a table and a new isrealis govememt ,think of the pressure that would put on isreal

 

[Vic]

All sounds very genocidey

Like the Armenians were just out for a stroll.

 

[robbieh]

Here is a thought imagine Hammas were to say we've fucked up and realised that this wasn't the way to get peace for our peolple how about we disarm ourselves and hand over the hostages in return for negotiations around a table and a new isrealis govememt ,think of the pressure that would put on isreal

I think that's naive. Israel would just carry on taking over Palestinian land.
I believe Hamas have every right to fire rockets at Israel precisely because of how Israelis treat Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
As I said earlier the last decade has been a good one for Israel in terms of losses and yet there were zero efforts to move forward the 2 state solution.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Here is a thought imagine Hammas were to say we've fucked up and realised that this wasn't the way to get peace for our peolple how about we disarm ourselves and hand over the hostages in return for negotiations around a table and a new isrealis govememt ,think of the pressure that would put on isreal

You would need a new government first. You sure Netanyahu won't get enough support to stay in power after this?

You are also assuming Hamas fucked up. And that their primary concern is looking after Palestinians.

 

[trueblue1972]

I think that's naive. Israel would just carry on taking over Palestinian land.
I believe Hamas have every right to fire rockets at Israel precisely because of how Israelis treat Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
As I said earlier the last decade has been a good one for Israel in terms of losses and yet there were zero efforts to move forward the 2 state solution.

It wasn't serious obviously its never going to happen , I can't repeat myself anymore on my feelings on settlements, but actions have consequences

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Here is a thought imagine Hammas were to say we've fucked up and realised that this wasn't the way to get peace for our peolple how about we disarm ourselves and hand over the hostages in return for negotiations around a table and a new isrealis govememt ,think of the pressure that would put on isreal

I guess the wider point is that Hamas have only really been on the scene for the last 30 years, and only in the form of a elected government for the last 18. We still, however, have Israel being consistently against a two state solution prior to Hamas. If anything, we could say that the Israeli government has been a bigger obstacle to peace in that regard.

Then you can add the West Bank into the mix where Hamas have no authority, yet we see the Palestinians dehumanised on a daily basis and terrorised by Settlers with impunity.

Ideally both Hamas, and the Isreali government should be dismantled and replaced with a (international) peacekeeping government that has the interests of both Israelis and Palestinians working / living together with a longer term pluralistic view.

 

[trueblue1972]

I guess the wider point is that Hamas have only really been on the scene for the last 30 years, and only in the form of a elected government for the last 18. We still, however, have Israel being consistently against a two state solution prior to Hamas. If anything, we could say that the Israeli government has been a bigger obstacle to peace in that regard.

Ideally both Hamas, and the Isreali government should be dismantled and replaced with a (international) peacekeeping government that has the interests of both Israelis and Palestinians working / living together with a longer term pluralistic view.

Again I'm with you on the last part

 

[BlueAnorak]

It's an annihilation of Gaza, it won't annihilate Hamas. And as has been said, the Israelis aren't stupid and must know this. So what is really going on?

You didn’t even try to answer the question.