Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Israel telling people in Khan Yunis to move west....

Mr Regev said Israeli troops would need to advance into the city to remove Hamas fighters from underground tunnels, adding he was "pretty sure" those being urged to relocate "won't have to move again" if they head west, towards the Mediterranean Sea.

And then into the Sea?
 
Vic said:
Israel telling people in Khan Yunis to move west....

Mr Regev said Israeli troops would need to advance into the city to remove Hamas fighters from underground tunnels, adding he was "pretty sure" those being urged to relocate "won't have to move again" if they head west, towards the Mediterranean Sea.

And then into the Sea?
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Just bad PR .... nothing a bit of media training couldn't sort out ;)
 
Postman Pep said:
Just bad PR .... nothing a bit of media training couldn't sort out ;)
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It really is though whatever your position, there are better ways of putting things

It’s a hopeless situation with ill defined outcomes, the latest is when the hostages are released a proper ceasefire can commence, nothing about destroying Hamas, so if this the outcome that the Americans want (it’s come from the Americans) one can rightly ask the question what is the mass slaughter and destruction achieved except for collective punishment

Hamas are going to still be there, Gaza will be in ruins, Israel more isolated than ever, it’s just a tragic waste
 
Ducado said:
It really is though whatever your position, there are better ways of putting things

It’s a hopeless situation with ill defined outcomes, the latest is when the hostages are released a proper ceasefire can commence, nothing about destroying Hamas, so if this the outcome that the Americans want (it’s come from the Americans) one can rightly ask the question what is the mass slaughter and destruction achieved except for collective punishment

Hamas are going to still be there, Gaza will be in ruins, Israel more isolated than ever, it’s just a tragic waste
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Sure. But I'm struggling to see how a more moderate tone would make any difference to the reality on the ground .... and given what that reality looks like they'd possibly look more delusional.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
50 plus kids shot dead by the IDF in the west bank. The IDF must be really proud. Not one western government has called these appalling acts out. Shameful.
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The Americans have mentioned it in public, but the message doesn’t seem to getting across

An Israeli friend tells me that he dreads the day all the settlers are removed from the West Bank to Israel proper, because they are right wing religious lunatics and it will have a bad effect on the secular nature of much of the country, it’s better to have them out of the way (not for Palestinians)
 
Ducado said:
The myth of the Jewish and pro Israel vote in America is just that a myth, they see the same scenes as we see, and there is a massive and increasing gulf between American Jewish communities and Israel because of the far right gaining power
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The West has given carte blanche to Israel to do whatever it feels necessary to consolidate and fortify it's military and political dominance for decades now and it has been for one main reason, that main reason being guilt over not just the Holocaust but also the decades and centuries of anti semitic discrimination and pogroms inflicted on European Jewry.
In trying to wash this blood off their hands they have been complicit in yet another crime on an innocent nation.
However, this feeling of collective guilt is being eroded as the post war baby boomer generation begins to die out and a new generation, one which is neither associated with the guilt of the persecution of Jews nor the cold war emerges.
This generation judges matters on what it sees happening in front of it with it's own eyes, and what it sees is a overwhelmingly powerful country that imposes a discriminatory apartheid system on a helpless minority population. What It sees is not the helpless Jews being persecuted, but the Jews persecuting the helpless Palestinians. It sees land grabbing, discrimination, persecution and murder with impunity carried out with their tax dollars.

They will call it as they see it and they don't like what they see.
 
Ducado said:
So unlimited civilian casualties?
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I would say terror and damage are the two motivations here.

I think it's often wise to listen when people say the quiet parts out loud. You (one, not "you" you) can't just write it off as personal opinions without support.
 
goalmole said:
Why would they want to go to America anyway.
A lot of those who might are dual national US citizens that wouldn't need a visa anyway.
Sounds like a meaningless sound bite to me.
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Of course it's a meaningless soundbite. The Americans have done nothing to stop the building of settlements on the West Bank for generations. If they really want to stop it, they would sanction the people responsible for the policy and the implementation: the Israeli government and the IDF. But they don't. They are just embarrassed that they have to support for their own geopolitical reasons whatever the Israelis are doing, so they have to do something, anything at all to show they don't, no matter how ineffective. And Israel knows it.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Eye witnesses and newspapers.

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I think the problem is that no-one is believing anything much of what the Israelis say any more. They have tried this "shock" or "justification" routine so many times when the narrative suits that it's losing effectiveness, especially when people can actually assess for themselves the horror that is unfolding in Gaza.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Of course it's a meaningless soundbite. The Americans have done nothing to stop the building of settlements on the West Bank for generations. If they really want to stop it, they would sanction the people responsible for the policy and the implementation: the Israeli government and the IDF. But they don't. They are just embarrassed that they have to support for their own geopolitical reasons whatever the Israelis are doing, so they have to do something, anything at all to show they don't, no matter how ineffective. And Israel knows it.
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And the world knows it now.
 
Tim of the Oak said:


I meant to post that Israel is saying 1.200 rather than 1,400 of its citizens were killed on 7 October. RIP.

The discrepancy was due to burnt bodies being unrecognisable.
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I have actually been on Reddit, starting to now, because of how gullible and impressionable many pro-Israelis are on the 40 babies beheaded babies claim. Many are very adamant about it, and spurred on their propagandist act rather than accepting the official list by Israel itself

There has been a complete list of Israelis during 7th October made public on the 25th October. The list included one baby, Mila Cohen, 10-month old. It's very tragic and it's one too many.

EDIT:

On the flipside, we have a thread on school shootings in the US and how we are unanimous of it being an atrocity.
Yet in reality, Israel has bombed two schools yesterday, killing dozens, funded by Hellfire munitions from...who can it be.

Included here the video of the U.N. school bombed, and the casualties.

 
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goalmole said:
The West has given carte blanche to Israel to do whatever it feels necessary to consolidate and fortify it's military and political dominance for decades now and it has been for one main reason, that main reason being guilt over not just the Holocaust but also the decades and centuries of anti semitic discrimination and pogroms inflicted on European Jewry.
In trying to wash this blood off their hands they have been complicit in yet another crime on an innocent nation.
However, this feeling of collective guilt is being eroded as the post war baby boomer generation begins to die out and a new generation, one which is neither associated with the guilt of the persecution of Jews nor the cold war emerges.
This generation judges matters on what it sees happening in front of it with it's own eyes, and what it sees is a overwhelmingly powerful country that imposes a discriminatory apartheid system on a helpless minority population. What It sees is not the helpless Jews being persecuted, but the Jews persecuting the helpless Palestinians. It sees land grabbing, discrimination, persecution and murder with impunity carried out with their tax dollars.

They will call it as they see it and they don't like what they see.
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I've previously said that the existential threat to Israel is "a new pharaoh that knew not Joseph". And if that reference means nothing to most, that's because "what the Bible says" means less to people in the western world, and (slower than in the UK) fundamentalism in the USA is less prevalent and less influential than it was. And (more research needed) that may well be true of Jews in America, whose unwavering support for Israel is waning.
 
BlueAnorak said:
So you don't believe forensic reports, videos, whitmess reports and victim statements?
Strange really as your extremely keen on sharing any tweet without provinence from Gaza or from Palestinian supporters outside Gaza.
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I think his "nice try" was for your demand for evidence that something that may not have happened. It's hard to prove a negative.
 
and yet the world stands by at best at worst green lights this. If HAMAS attacked a local clinic in Israel Regev would claim a new Holocaust.

BTW Israel has no provision for any humanitarian aid follow up - they say thats for the UN to do. Like puking in your mates car coz you are pissed up and dismissing any clean up saying he should crowd fund the required valet of his car interior

www.bbc.co.uk

WHO says Gaza's al-Shifa hospital a death zone, as hundreds leave

The UN health agency examines al-Shifa after last week's raid by Israeli troops looking for a Hamas bunker.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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