Mr Bates vs the Post Office

gordondaviesmoustache said:
My old house round the corner, had two new next door neighbours move in a couple of years ago. Nice couple. Husband and wife. Bit boring, but very pleasant. Good neighbours. Often saw them walking their dog when I was on my way to the pub, but never saw them in there!

And one day my girlfriend met them, and said she thought they were Christians. Not in an especially pejorative way, but maybe not everyone would see it that way tbf. Hadn’t spotted it myself, but it sort of made sense when I thought about it.

A couple of days later I see the wife get out of her car, she’s wearing a dog collar! Tried to look nonchalant when I spoke to her, but I doubt I pulled it off!
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Might have been a kissogram
 
I have just watched the original Panorama documentary. It is one hard watch. I even feel ashamed to be English. Is this what our country was and still is ?
It is made clear that the Government knew of the scandal in 2015 and perhaps even earlier.
20 years of lies and cover ups tokeep a British Institutions good name ?
 
Blue Mist said:
I have just watched the original Panorama documentary. It is one hard watch. I even feel ashamed to be English. Is this what our country was and still is ?
It is made clear that the Government knew of the scandal in 2015 and perhaps even earlier.
20 years of lies and cover ups tokeep a British Institutions good name ?
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Cover ups, perjury, incompetence, corruption but the thing that scares the ‘little man’ is that British justice is the finest in the world. Innocent until proven guilty has clearly been lost. Even many of the defence lawyers have not looked at the case to prove innocence but likely penalties & how to plead. Clearly this is based on the cost of the defence, something that allowed for cover ups.

Are any of the defence lawyers going to be given evidence as how they were unable to protect their clients?
 
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blueste41 said:
They have been fantastic, as you say it's not their position to be aggressive they ask questions on behalf of the enquiry to establish "what went wrong". Jason Beer KC is particularly good, he probes and probes to make his point. TBH though the documents presented speak the truth for themselves.
You will find the lawyers that represent the subpostmsters question in a much more aggressive accusatory manor.
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I have never had the pleasure of watching KCs & I imagine many of us don’t. After watching Jason Beer probe was like a blood sport & addictive.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Just checked Beer’s profile out. Seriously impressive. Guys like that are on another planet compared to the vast majority of the profession they operate in. It’s like the difference between the PL and League 1. Think that about sums it up.

Aggressive is rarely a good look when cross examining. Think it’s occasionally justified. When the witness is a professional (such as Old Bill) and they won’t answer the question being one such example.
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I watched a bit of Beer cross examining Singh (30/11) which is definitely like a cup tie PL vs National league….

No fucking chance of a giant killing in that fixture.

I also noted there was far less tolerance when talking to incompetent Lawyers than others.
 
And in today's news. Despite previous problems with Fujitsu's IT contracts with the UK government, lawyers advised that Fujitsu couldn't be excluded from tendering for new contracts because past poor performance wasn't a factor to be taken into account for public procurement.

I think that's in the early years of the coalition government. EU procurement rules changed in 2014 to allow past performance to be a factor.
 
Vic said:
And in today's news. Despite previous problems with Fujitsu's IT contracts with the UK government, lawyers advised that Fujitsu couldn't be excluded from tendering for new contracts because past poor performance wasn't a factor to be taken into account for public procurement.

I think that's in the early years of the coalition government. EU procurement rules changed in 2014 to allow past performance to be a factor.
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On the Panorama programme they said that there were a number of companies bidding for the PO contract. Fujitsu came bottom in 5 of the 7 tests..... but they were the cheapest.
 
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Blue Mist said:
On the Panorama programme they said that there were a number of companies bidding for the PO contract. Fujitsu came bottom in 5 of the 7 tests..... but they were the cheapest.
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Always go with the cheapest then spend a fortune when it doesn’t work, ends up costing more than the number one bid, sounds about right for anything the government has a hand in with public money
 
Blue Mist said:
I have just watched the original Panorama documentary. It is one hard watch. I even feel ashamed to be English. Is this what our country was and still is ?
It is made clear that the Government knew of the scandal in 2015 and perhaps even earlier.
20 years of lies and cover ups tokeep a British Institutions good name ?
Click to expand...
Your main takeaway from the 2015 Panorama was of a government cover up?
My recollection of events from 2015 are Vennels lying to a select committee, POL sacking second sight to prevent them reporting the truth about Horizon and the breakdown of the mediation scheme.
Whilst at that time some back bench Mp's had suspicions about wrongful convictions POL/Fujitsu were still hiding the truth from the entire world including the government.
One part of this scandal is that POL lied to it's one and only shareholder (the government).
Who specifically in David Cameron's 2015 government did the programme say knew the truth?
 
blueste41 said:
Your main takeaway from the 2015 Panorama was of a government cover up?
My recollection of events from 2015 are Vennels lying to a select committee, POL sacking second sight to prevent them reporting the truth about Horizon and the breakdown of the mediation scheme.
Whilst at that time some back bench Mp's had suspicions about wrongful convictions POL/Fujitsu were still hiding the truth from the entire world including the government.
One part of this scandal is that POL lied to it's one and only shareholder (the government).
Who specifically in David Cameron's 2015 government did the programme say knew the truth?
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Panorama stated that the Post Office needed to stop the independent investigation. (Second Sight) so they formed a sub committee. On that committee was a high level government official who reported back to Ministers. Panorama stated the sub Committee knew of the lies and cover ups and worse, the wrongful imprisonment of Sub Postmasters, it is inconceivable therefore that the government did not know. The programme was first broadcast in 2020, if they were lying they would not have rebroadcast it in 2024.
The simple truth is that whilst some MP s were fighting for innocent people, the government preferred innocent people in jail rather face the consequences. This is why it has run for 20 odd years.... just like the contaminated blood scandal, Grenfell and dare I say it Hillsborough.
 
Blue Mist said:
Panorama stated that the Post Office needed to stop the independent investigation. (Second Sight) so they formed a sub committee. On that committee was a high level government official who reported back to Ministers. Panorama stated the sub Committee knew of the lies and cover ups and worse, the wrongful imprisonment of Sub Postmasters, it is inconceivable therefore that the government did not know. The programme was first broadcast in 2020, if they were lying they would not have rebroadcast it in 2024.
The simple truth is that whilst some MP s were fighting for innocent people, the government preferred innocent people in jail rather face the consequences. This is why it has run for 20 odd years.... just like the contaminated blood scandal, Grenfell and dare I say it Hillsborough.
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I thought we were discussing the 2015 programme? In 2020 there was nothing to cover up, the common issues trial in 2019 had exposed and proved everything.
Your honestly just spreading mis-information now, nobody following or reporting the case nor the postmasters have ever suggested or suspected a government cover up in 2015!
 
blueste41 said:
I thought we were discussing the 2015 programme? In 2020 there was nothing to cover up, the common issues trial in 2019 had exposed and proved everything.
Your honestly just spreading mis-information now, nobody following or reporting the case nor the postmasters have ever suggested or suspected a government cover up in 2015!
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As I understand it and Google confirms, the Panorama programme that I saw last night was first aired in 2020. Panorama stated that a senior government official sat on the sub Committee and was therefore aware, in 2015 of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
I am not, as far as I know, spreading any misinformation.
 
I have seen that poor women who had got so depressed she had ECT treatment , she is broken , she was on again this morning , £75 grand to her is the biggest insult going
 
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