PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

halfcenturyup said:
"Independent" panel. Yes, I get the point about the professionalism of KCs (and their counterparts) and their presumed lack of bias, but it is pushing the definition of independent when the PL appoints someone who is solely responsible for selecting all the members of a judicial panel, a disciplinary panel and an appeals panel, and then even chooses which members of those panels sit on which cases.

This doesn't mean I think the panels will be at all biased, but it is another example of poor optics from the PL to put alongside almost everything else they do. It's a bizzzarely opaque and closed organisation, more reminiscent of a secret society than a members' club, imho.
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I think we'll learn a lot from the Everton appeal decision. Everything you say about the opaque nature of the PL, and the misnomer of calling the panel "independent" is absolutely true. If I look at the league table, I have the feeling that the PL are absolutely not going to want Everton to be relegated based on the points deduction - so, I can see a world in which the IC 'independently' decide to significantly reduce it.

The flip side of that is that they dig their heels in on these rules and the Everton situation and decide that the deduction stands. I think the wider ramifications of that won't be known until the next PL board meeting because I don't see a world in which 14 clubs agree that this is the right course of action.
 
Plain Speaking said:
Could the likely change in UK government have an influence on our case?

There have been suspicions from the UK media that the UAE may be trying to putting political pressure on the UK government regarding foreign investment?

The likely incoming UK government at the time of the PL decision will be Keir Starmer's Labour government.

According to the Labour Parties blurb: "Keir was obsessed with football and still plays every Sunday with friends... A lifelong Arsenal fan, he has a season ticket at the Emirates, where he attends with his children." Starmer also "believes football itself could become a manifesto issue for the next election, where his party would push for a “fairer” game."

The UK media portray City as unfairly sportswashing oil revenue. City have dominated the PL recently. Starmer might regard it as a popular domestic move for a significant downfall of our status to occur with his government in power?
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IMO money trumps right/left politics. Starmer will need excellent relations with Abu Dhabi for financial reasons just like the Conservatives do.
 
BillyShears said:
I think we'll learn a lot from the Everton appeal decision. Everything you say about the opaque nature of the PL, and the misnomer of calling the panel "independent" is absolutely true. If I look at the league table, I have the feeling that the PL are absolutely not going to want Everton to be relegated based on the points deduction - so, I can see a world in which the IC 'independently' decide to significantly reduce it.

The flip side of that is that they dig their heels in on these rules and the Everton situation and decide that the deduction stands. I think the wider ramifications of that won't be known until the next PL board meeting because I don't see a world in which 14 clubs agree that this is the right course of action.
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Interesting times, but whatever happens to Everton, it's a right fucking mess and the PL have no-one but themselves to blame. I can't imagine there is any way in which the handling of all these cases (City, Everton, Forest) could have been worse. Trying to show they can regulate themselves? Dear God, it couldn't be a bigger mess if they weren't actually trying at all.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Like a breath of fresh air in a stale, stinky room!

Facts, details, common sense, no club bias.

What makes it so outstanding is its rarity, which speaks volumes to the quality of football “journalism” today.
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No innuendo….. just facts…. He won’t last ;)

(Breath of fresh air)
 
halfcenturyup said:
Interesting times, but whatever happens to Everton, it's a right fucking mess and the PL have no-one but themselves to blame. I can't imagine there is any way in which the handling of all these cases (City, Everton, Forest) could have been worse. Trying to show they can regulate themselves? Dear God, it couldn't be a bigger mess if they weren't actually trying at all.
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It is a really strange situation they find themselves in, because the backdrop to this is the plateauing of the TV rights deal (domestically at least). The 'product' they sell is the very one they're currently undermining in a desperate attempt to circumvent an independent regulator. The whole thing stinks of politics in the worst possible way.

Basically, the league was never broken, and there was nothing that needed fixing. Money into the league from super wealthy owners does not have a detrimental effect on the league as a whole. On the contrary it simply strengthens the position as the best and most successful league in the world. Trying to reign in 'investment' via this sort of punishment is objectively nonsense.

All of that isn't to say that Moshiri was clearly a front for Usmanov's money and him becoming persona non grata fucked Everton - but the league as a whole allowed the Moshiri/Usmanov deal to go through same as they let the Saudis buy Newcastle. I've got no idea what Richard Masters end game is here.
 
halfcenturyup said:
"Independent" panel. Yes, I get the point about the professionalism of KCs (and their counterparts) and their presumed lack of bias, but it is pushing the definition of independent when the PL appoints someone who is solely responsible for selecting all the members of a judicial panel, a disciplinary panel and an appeals panel, and then even chooses which members of those panels sit on which cases.

This doesn't mean I think the panels will be at all biased, but it is another example of poor optics from the PL to put alongside almost everything else they do. It's a bizarrely opaque and closed organisation, more reminiscent of a secret society than a members' club, imho.
Click to expand...
The other point is that it differs from the UEFA version in that it deliberately excludes CAS.

Even with CAS we had the option for each side to choose a Professionally qualified legal member which did not result in a unanimous decision relying on the head to decide.

Even if no further evidence than the CAS had then surely 3 picked from the PL side could make a mockery of independent if the Panel judges like CAS did?

Hopefully all 3 will base their decision on evidence.
 
BillyShears said:
It is a really strange situation they find themselves in, because the backdrop to this is the plateauing of the TV rights deal (domestically at least). The 'product' they sell is the very one they're currently undermining in a desperate attempt to circumvent an independent regulator. The whole thing stinks of politics in the worst possible way.

Basically, the league was never broken, and there was nothing that needed fixing. Money into the league from super wealthy owners does not have a detrimental effect on the league as a whole. On the contrary it simply strengthens the position as the best and most successful league in the world. Trying to reign in 'investment' via this sort of punishment is objectively nonsense.

All of that isn't to say that Moshiri was clearly a front for Usmanov's money and him becoming persona non grata fucked Everton - but the league as a whole allowed the Moshiri/Usmanov deal to go through same as they let the Saudis buy Newcastle. I've got no idea what Richard Masters end game is here.
Click to expand...

To be fair to Masters, and I hate doing that, this all started with Platini not having the balls to do FFP properly in 2012 when he was threatened by the big clubs. Once UEFA had fucked up FFP, it was hard for the PL not to follow. And to be fair to them, they gave much more generous "break-even" targets and it's only now that these targets are biting some of the clubs on the backside. But that is the past.

His end game? I am not sure he has one. I am not sure he is that good, to be honest. What will the end game be? Immediately, there will clearly be some changes in FFP in the summer, and I have no doubt whatever happens will be just enough to get United out of the shit they are in this year with their three year rolling period. More long-term, it seems he is sleep-walking into a situation where fans are becoming more unhappy with the way things are going. If I was wearing my tin foil hat, I would say Masters is doing exactly what the big clubs want him to do. Paving the way for fan acceptance of an ESL in the future. Without the tin foil hat, I can see neither rhyme nor reason in his descent into a bigger and bigger mess.

Maybe he is just out of his depth, after all.

Anyway, feel free to pick the above to pieces. All this agreeing on everything is making me feel dirty :)
 
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SilverFox2 said:
The other point is that it differs from the UEFA version in that it deliberately excludes CAS.

Even with CAS we had the option for each side to choose a Professionally qualified legal member which did not result in a unanimous decision relying on the head to decide.

Even if no further evidence than the CAS had then surely 3 picked from the PL side could make a mockery of independent if the Panel judges like CAS did?

Hopefully all 3 will base their decision on evidence.
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Can't argue with that. Just keep in mind the possibility of a real arbitration procedure. I know our legal guys don't think it would get that far (I am still waiting for a blasting for raising it) but that would be a CAS equivalent under the PL umbrella in this case.
 
Be interesting when all the clubs meet up what they will agree to regarding PSR!?

I'm going for what has already been muted to be is the uefa PSR but add in new owner or buy in to a club can spend not 105m over 3 years but 300m!
 
waspish said:
Be interesting when all the clubs meet up what they will agree to regarding PSR!?

I'm going for what has already been muted to be is the uefa PSR but add in new owner or buy in to a club can spend not 105m over 3 years but 300m!
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£100m is so small, 2 or 3 goodish players.
 
halfcenturyup said:
To be fair to Masters, and I hate doing that, this all started with Platini not having the balls to do FFP properly in 2012 when he was threatened by the big clubs. Once UEFA had fucked up FFP, it was hard for the PL not to follow. And to be fair to them, they gave much more generous "break-even" targets and it's only now that these targets are biting some of the clubs on the backside. But that is the past.

His end game? I am not sure he has one. I am not sure he is that good, to be honest. What will the end game be? Immediately, there will clearly be some changes in FFP in the summer, and I have no doubt whatever happens will be just enough to get United out of the shit they are in this year with their three year rolling period. More long=term, it seems he is sleep-walking into a situation where fans are becoming more unhappy with the way things are going. If I was wearing my tin foil hat, I would say Masters is doing exactly what the big clubs want him to do. Paving the way for fan acceptance of an ESL in the future. Without the tin foil hat, I can see neither rhyme nor reason in his descent into a bigger and bigger mess.

Maybe he is just out of his depth, after all.

Anyway, feel free to pick the above to pieces. All this agreeing on everything is making me feel dirty :)
Click to expand...
This, i dont think masters is some kind of evil genius by any means, i think the bright lights appealed to him and now he is massively out of his depth and isnt smart enough to find a way out, its very telling that the two other people they shortlisted for the job wanted no part of it and his previous incumbent left after 1 month, they all saw what was happening and didnt want their name and reputation tarnished, masters didnt have anything to lose at the outset and now he is trapped.
 
Plain Speaking said:
Could the likely change in UK government have an influence on our case?

There have been suspicions from the UK media that the UAE may be trying to putting political pressure on the UK government regarding foreign investment?

The likely incoming UK government at the time of the PL decision will be Keir Starmer's Labour government.

According to the Labour Parties blurb: "Keir was obsessed with football and still plays every Sunday with friends... A lifelong Arsenal fan, he has a season ticket at the Emirates, where he attends with his children." Starmer also "believes football itself could become a manifesto issue for the next election, where his party would push for a “fairer” game."

The UK media portray City as unfairly sportswashing oil revenue. City have dominated the PL recently. Starmer might regard it as a popular domestic move for a significant downfall of our status to occur with his government in power?
Click to expand...
Starmer could start by pulling the plug on Arsenal's biggest sponsorship deal with the UAE!
 
halfcenturyup said:
To be fair to Masters, and I hate doing that, this all started with Platini not having the balls to do FFP properly in 2012 when he was threatened by the big clubs. Once UEFA had fucked up FFP, it was hard for the PL not to follow. And to be fair to them, they gave much more generous "break-even" targets and it's only now that these targets are biting some of the clubs on the backside. But that is the past.

His end game? I am not sure he has one. I am not sure he is that good, to be honest. What will the end game be? Immediately, there will clearly be some changes in FFP in the summer, and I have no doubt whatever happens will be just enough to get United out of the shit they are in this year with their three year rolling period. More long=term, it seems he is sleep-walking into a situation where fans are becoming more unhappy with the way things are going. If I was wearing my tin foil hat, I would say Masters is doing exactly what the big clubs want him to do. Paving the way for fan acceptance of an ESL in the future. Without the tin foil hat, I can see neither rhyme nor reason in his descent into a bigger and bigger mess.

Maybe he is just out of his depth, after all.

Anyway, feel free to pick the above to pieces. All this agreeing on everything is making me feel dirty :)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that this is about the ESL, it's just more about the reality of the power that United/Arsenal/Liverpool have historically wielded at PL board level. The majority of supporters are unhappy because of the noise that Masters has allowed the aforementioned clubs to make about City. It has been a smear campaign, and it has worked because a lot of rival supporters think that the credibility of the league is undermined by City.

What Masters should've done after the CAS verdict, is the opposite of what they have done. He should've backed City, backed the idea that CAS found in our favor, and basically rallied around his product. Instead he chose to go to war on behalf of the red 3. Now he's paying the price as it has ultimately undermined his credibility and created serious unhappiness right across the division.

How do they prove what they need to prove? Even if City are totally cleared by the IC, rivals will continue to say City cheated. That is exactly what Masters should've been avoiding, not leaning into.
 
mancboy said:
This, i dont think masters is some kind of evil genius by any means, i think the bright lights appealed to him and now he is massively out of his depth and isnt smart enough to find a way out, its very telling that the two other people they shortlisted for the job wanted no part of it and his previous incumbent left after 1 month, they all saw what was happening and didnt want their name and reputation tarnished, masters didnt have anything to lose at the outset and now he is trapped.
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Masters has been manipulated from day one by certain club Directors. His "small clubs" quote at the Select Committee gave it all away. He may not be evil but he has acted in bad faith as far as City are concerned.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Masters has been manipulated from day one by certain club Directors. His "small clubs" quote at the Select Committee gave it all away. He may not be evil but he has acted in bad faith as far as City are concerned.
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the only reason he got the job was at the behest of certain club directors and that single comment where he called certain clubs small should have been enough to have him cast out on his ear immediately, how can you claim to be impartial when you mention the size of a club, in now way is he capable of running things fairly and that proved it.
 
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