Russian invasion of Ukraine

here's the facts from history for kremlin ****

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TinFoilHat said:


The thing is that could be true about Johnson.
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I don’t buy that from the liar Putin, Johnson may well have said we will support you but if Putin could produce the document that was on the table fair enough but Zellenskyi has proven to be a strong leader from day one the people were not prepared to give in, who can forget the early days of the war I know I have not
Johnson took advantage of improving his street standing the pics of him marching the streets of Kiev never to be forgotten
 
hgblue said:
Yes, a negotiated settlement. Will involve some painful concessions by the Ukrainian side, but compared to losing a generation of young people this would seem preferable to me. However, if the Ukrainian people want to carry on fighting I respect that and wish them well. Just don't think this war is headed for the happy ending most on here would like to see.
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surely a none painful settlement is for Russia to get the hell out of Ukraine.

A generation of young people, seems small beer to the wiping out of the entire Ukrainian culture which far pre-dates ‘Russia’.

there’s hardly any Tatar culture left in Crimea due to ‘Russia’ (deportation/forced assimilation/destruction of history) and again that culture far pre-dates ‘Russia’.

I can’t remember any poster on here who ‘supports’ Ukraine, thinking there is any happy ending going to happen, baring the natural death of a single Russian man.
 
What was on the table regarding the peace talks and Johnson's role as messenger boy has already been confirmed on the Ukraine side.




 
Scottyboi said:
Putin never gets questioned or held to account, we have no idea how he would actually react to a debate with someone like Biden as he is use to having it all his own way. I reckon he would get angry very quickly like most little short syndrome dictators.
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Did watch the BBC documentary just watch him with his own people when asking if they backed Donbas saying its Russian, they arexshitting themselves and you can see Putin thinking this fucker is finding a 6th floor window soon. It’s going to take some serious balls to oust him,only the military can do that.
 
I've not watched the interview yet but People shouldn't be so dismissive, you don't have to agree you can watch it with utter contempt.

We as a society are dismissing this it should be essential viewing, people should watch the Putin interview, even just as a repulsive watch of how to spot a madman.

EDIT: this posted way earlier than I wanted it to I was going in depth as to what I meant, I'm still cooking and as I was writing the blue bar that pops up to say new comment... It moved as I pressed the comment box to organise the grammar of my first two paragraph, so it ended up posting sooner than I wanted it to much to my annoyance.

I think Putin is an evil bastard along with China's leader Xi they are the most evil leaders and biggest threats to our freedom, in this case the saying is you should keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Personally I think people should watch this interview so they're more informed on a subject, it doesn't help dissuade others when you start screeching that you aren't watching just cos they're evil cunts.

It's better to measure them up and know what you're talking about here especially when they talk about certain things, you could stop others becoming brainwashed but when you go in all reactionary towards it and say you aren't watching it, you give people a morbid curiosity to watch it and for many less informed people it may strike a chord. If you've also watched it you can point out things they have potentially missed, you should watch because people may instead begin sympatise with a charismatic evil madman, don't say Putin isn't as just because he's evil doesn't mean he isn't charismatic he has his strange cult following.

Hitler was an evil lunatic too but he was extremely charismatic most of Germany listened to his every word because he spoke to them, these evil bastards have a tendency to make themselves believable to the gullible or those who have lost hope, Germany had lost all hope and was downtrodden when Hitler came along.

To watch this does not change your own views on this it potentially reinforces them even more, there was a German born American journalist called Karl von Wiegard he interviewed Hitler more than once. He did it to expose the American people to him personally but he wasn't a Nazi sympathiser he wanted them to know about Hitler, he was simply doing his job which the media should have already done a long time before this regarding Putin after this conflict started.

Wiegard was the poster boy for how journalism should be done he voiced his concerns about the nazi party, he still interviewed the very cause of WWII though because it was completely relevant to do so, Wiegard was also the only American journalist in Berlin for WWI as well.

This interview with Putin should've taken place not long after the conflict started, however the media doesn't trust you at all to figure out that Putin is an evil madman. You should probably watch it just to fully guage the man so you can make sure someone you know doesn't sympathise with any points he makes, if you aren't calm and measured in your criticisms of him and only ever abusive towards him for others less informed you may seem like the lunatic.

The best way to take this bastard down is with a calm discussion, I've managed to change warped view of those I know simply by talking to them, too many these days lack the patience or skill to do so and that in itself is dangerous it leads to more division.

@gordondaviesmoustache cheers for your input re read if you can be arsed, it's not my fault blue moon likes to move the comment box as I press it.
 
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Kinkladze's crazy skills said:
I've not watched the interview yet but People shouldn't be so dismissive you don't have to agree you can watch it with utter contempt.

We as a society are dismissing this it should be essential viewing people should watch the Putin interview even just as a repulsive watch of how to spot a madman
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A few mins was all I could stomach his madness shows when his face contorts into laughing at something Tucker said.
 
Kinkladze's crazy skills said:
I've not watched the interview yet but People shouldn't be so dismissive you don't have to agree you can watch it with utter contempt.

We as a society are dismissing this it should be essential viewing people should watch the Putin interview even just as a repulsive watch of how to spot a madman
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What’s even more repulsive than Putin is your aversion to full stops!
 
BlueAnorak said:
What a load of bollocks.
Russia couldn't be trusted and that is the reason the talks failed.
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Unsurprisingly you know better than the man who was in the room. If trusting the Russians was the overriding issue why bother sitting down in the first place?

That's not to say trust wasn't an issue. As the man said there was no way they could proceed without security guarantees.That would have involved 'the West' playing a constructive role in the idea of a neutral Ukrainian state .... rather than saying fuck that let's fight.....with our weapons and your blood.

Within the post you called 'bollocks' was a link to what the Ukrainian delegation was demanding.


The Russians may well have said 'nyet' further down the line but we will never now because we said it first.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
You think? Just after Russia had marched in and stole tens of thousands of square miles and bombed civilian targets?
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Not really about what I think is it. You have the words of a fella who was sat at the table and a link to the Ukrainian government website as to their position in March 22. Make of what you will.
 
hgblue said:
Yes, a negotiated settlement. Will involve some painful concessions by the Ukrainian side, but compared to losing a generation of young people this would seem preferable to me. However, if the Ukrainian people want to carry on fighting I respect that and wish them well. Just don't think this war is headed for the happy ending most on here would like to see.
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A negotiated settlement won't be worth the paper it's written on while putin is in command. Why can't some people grasp this?
 
Postman Pep said:
Not really about what I think is it. You have the words of a fella who was sat at the table and a link to the Ukrainian government website as to their position in March 22. Make of what you will.
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Well it sort of is about what you think (and thereby post) on a forum, which invites a response from other posters. That’s sort of how it works.

I listened to what he said and he was pretty strident about the trust issue. It’s a fundamental basis for any negotiation, if it’s going to be worthwhile, that you believe other party will broadly keep to whatever is agreed, otherwise what is the point? This trust issue has to be hugely amplified through Ukrainian eyes given what they gave up in exchange for assurances from Russia in the early ‘90s, and what had happened in 2014. They were completely justified and proportionate in holding huge levels of suspicion towards Russia before the invasion in February 2022, much more so afterwards.

Never got a problem with anyone calling Johnson a ****, but the suggestion that he had the power or influence alone to define the outcome, especially when the US were/are in the picture, seems fanciful at best. Not saying he didn’t intervene in the way suggested, but whether he caused the talks to collapse seems extremely unlikely as it would have to be predicated on the basis there was a genuine willingness on behalf of the Ukrainians to do a deal, which they were subsequently persuaded by Johnson to resile from. Given what had happened to their country, the way they had defended Kyiv, and what was at stake, existentially for them as a nation, this seems extremely unlikely to me.

Causation is the issue here.
 
Kinkladze's crazy skills said:
This interview with Putin should've taken place not long after the conflict started, however the media doesn't trust you at all to figure out that Putin is an evil madman. You should probably watch it just to fully guage the man so you can make sure someone you know doesn't sympathise with any points he makes, if you aren't calm and measured in your criticisms of him and only ever abusive towards him for others less informed you may seem like the lunatic.
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Countless journalists from Western media organisations have asked for an interview. Including the BBC's Steve Rosenberg.

Putin declined them all. He wanted a softball interview and Tucker obliged.
 
Crooked_rain said:
I'm no supporter of Putin but after seeing that, it's probably a good thing Biden doesn't meet or talk with him.

He would run circles around Biden if they ever had a conversation, especially in public. He was able to switch between many topics easily and converse about them and could recite 1200 years of European history off the top of his head in detail.

Biden didn't even get one minute into his press conference yesterday without the president of Mexico and Egypt confused.
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Another one.
 
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