Media Discussion - 2023/24

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The thing is, net spend is dumb. It's compeltely fucking meaningless and it assumes that zero is the right amount for a football club to spend...on football players...that play football. It would be like an IT department spending zero on hardware for 10 years and wanting an award for it.

However, it's getting so fucking boring hearing people loudly proclaim how shit net spend is now that City's is one of the "best" of the big clubs, when lots of us spent 2008-2018ish saying such and being shouted down by a bunch of top 4 supporting knobheads who thought it was the be all and end all of football fairness.


If someone had the wherewithall, pettiness and time, a great compiltion could be made of pundits, journalists and ex-players doing a complete 180 on net spend simply because it's no longer a stick to beat City with.

The frugal cup and moral high ground isn't the same as winning a treble :)
 
Love your first sentance deffo reusing that if you don't mind
I've been saying this (that net spend is a meaningless metric) for ages. My analogy involves two people going into a Porsche showroom, one with a 10-year-old Ford Focus and the other with a 1-year-old Porsche. Both trade their cars in and come out with an identical new model.

The net spend will be hugely higher for the former than the latter, but they've both got exactly the same in the end. It all depends where you start from. Also the longer the period you're comparing it over, the more inflation comes into it.

It also doesn't take into account (over a short period) players who need to be replaced. So if a player leaves and you spend £50m to replace him, that's a £50m net spend if he leaves at the end of his contract. If a player leaves 3 years into a 5-year contract and you get £30m for him, that's a £20m net spend but you're in exactly the same position, as you've replaced one player with a £50m one. There's no context in a bare net spend figure.

There are at least 3 better metrics to make financial comparisons with.
  • Wages plus amortisation
  • Total squad cost
  • 'Free' cash reinvested in the squad (that is, how much actual cash, after paying operating expenses but including player sales revenue, do you spend on new players)
All of these are quantifiable from club accounts (although that last one takes a bit of work).

One example I uncovered from my analysis of the so-called 'big 6' accounts is that Spurs, up to relatively recently, only spent on new players what they received for outgoing players. Whereas all the other five clubs used additional cash generated from their operations (and we generally generate £100m or more from ours, which we fully reinvest).

The only time net spend would be a factor in a club's calculation is when they decide they've got a fixed sum to spend in a window, and any additional spending will have to be financed by player sales. But that will be a season-by-season, even window-by-window decision.
 
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According to Simon "Freeloader" Stone that net spend doesn't count,

"A substantial factor in bringing their figure down to £259m has been their ability to sell players such as Gabriel Jesus, Oleksandr Zinchenko, Riyad Mahrez, Aymeric Laporte and Cole Palmer for huge sums.

None of these players would be regarded as automatic first choices and while they are part of the City journey, without them they are closing on becoming the first side since the English league was created in 1888 to win the top flight four seasons in a row".
Net spend was their go to attack dog until we started to rise up the table, now it’s irrelevant and the figures are not to be trusted
 
The bbc - happy to post shit like this on their main football page. They're a national fucking disgrace

"Like Natalie Imbruglia, I'm torn. On the one hand, I don't want them lot up the road to win the title, but on the other I'm not happy with a team that has 115 charges against them winning the league again. Feels like cheaters might be able to prosper..."

Matt, a conflicted Tottenham fan

My reply of "Fuck off Matt you ****." in response is unlikely to make it i think.
 
The bbc - happy to post shit like this on their main football page. They're a national fucking disgrace

"Like Natalie Imbruglia, I'm torn. On the one hand, I don't want them lot up the road to win the title, but on the other I'm not happy with a team that has 115 charges against them winning the league again. Feels like cheaters might be able to prosper..."

Matt, a conflicted Tottenham fan

My reply of "Fuck off Matt you ****." in response is unlikely to make it i think.

I mean… you might not like it but there’s nothing incorrect in that comment, it’s a perfectly valid opinion for a spurs fan to have and there’s no reason why the BBC wouldn’t put it up when asking for input from Spurs fans in tonight’s game.

That is how 90% of football fans outside of the Manchester City fanbase think, if you can’t handle it then why are you going to a page that advertises that it’s going to share what fans say as part of the match buildup?

You’ve chosen to go somewhere to hear and see fan opinions and are throwing a hissy fit because you heard a fan opinion you didn’t like. Remind me why that’s the BBCs fault?
 
The thing is, net spend is dumb. It's compeltely fucking meaningless and it assumes that zero is the right amount for a football club to spend...on football players...that play football. It would be like an IT department spending zero on hardware for 10 years and wanting an award for it.

However, it's getting so fucking boring hearing people loudly proclaim how shit net spend is now that City's is one of the "best" of the big clubs, when lots of us spent 2008-2018ish saying such and being shouted down by a bunch of top 4 supporting knobheads who thought it was the be all and end all of football fairness.


If someone had the wherewithall, pettiness and time, a great compiltion could be made of pundits, journalists and ex-players doing a complete 180 on net spend simply because it's no longer a stick to beat City with.
Net spend counts in PSR calculations so it’s far from dumb, without the player sales we couldn’t have bought all the players we have, some yes but not all.
 
Turn on talksport and the very first thing is city comparison with Lance Armstrong.

That station surely should be taken to court by our owners. Its gone from banter to broadcasting it over the airwaves this shit and nothing had even been proven yet.
Interestingly, they cut that **** off but not before taking him to task about what he’d said. They haven’t done that before, they usually let the caller their spleen when it comes to 115.
 
Net spend counts in PSR calculations so it’s far from dumb, without the player sales we couldn’t have bought all the players we have, some yes but not all.

Transfer Net spend (the thing we are talking about) does not and has never counted in PSR calculations.

The old 2010 era FFP rules looked at total allowable losses, the new ones look at % of revenue spend on transfers, agents and wages.

Neither has ever cared about net spend on transfers.
 
Net spend counts in PSR calculations so it’s far from dumb, without the player sales we couldn’t have bought all the players we have, some yes but not all.
Net spend isn’t in PSR calculations though.

Player sales and purchases are included along with wages, other operating costs, depreciation, sponsorship income, TV revenue, on-field performance related income etc to provide a full account of the organisation’s financial performance and outlook.

In terms of demonstrating the financial health/performance of a football club, net spend is completely pointless.
 
Apart from that I can only remember Kev winning numerous corners late on at the swamp with a little help from Haaland...but, if that was showboating or not is another thing.
I remember Rodney Marsh taking the piss out of ushited at Maine Road, at the Platt Lane corner flag, just before Colin Bell put us 3 up. I like piss taking or as we call it now shit housing.
 
I mean… you might not like it but there’s nothing incorrect in that comment, it’s a perfectly valid opinion for a spurs fan to have and there’s no reason why the BBC wouldn’t put it up when asking for input from Spurs fans in tonight’s game.

That is how 90% of football fans outside of the Manchester City fanbase think, if you can’t handle it then why are you going to a page that advertises that it’s going to share what fans say as part of the match buildup?

You’ve chosen to go somewhere to hear and see fan opinions and are throwing a hissy fit because you heard a fan opinion you didn’t like. Remind me why that’s the BBCs fault?
Well, my comment was clearly said more in jest and obviously I didn't text the BBC. I'm not sat here raging or having a hissy fit. I'm fully aware of how other fans and the BBC operate and it hasn't just dawned on me today!

However, if I've helped you vent some tension then perhaps it's done some good.
 
Net spend isn’t in PSR calculations though.

Player sales and purchases are included along with wages, other operating costs, depreciation, sponsorship income, TV revenue, on-field performance related income etc to provide a full account of the organisation’s financial performance and outlook.

In terms of demonstrating the financial health/performance of a football club, net spend is completely pointless.
 
The thing is, net spend is dumb. It's compeltely fucking meaningless and it assumes that zero is the right amount for a football club to spend...on football players...that play football. It would be like an IT department spending zero on hardware for 10 years and wanting an award for it.

However, it's getting so fucking boring hearing people loudly proclaim how shit net spend is now that City's is one of the "best" of the big clubs, when lots of us spent 2008-2018ish saying such and being shouted down by a bunch of top 4 supporting knobheads who thought it was the be all and end all of football fairness.


If someone had the wherewithall, pettiness and time, a great compiltion could be made of pundits, journalists and ex-players doing a complete 180 on net spend simply because it's no longer a stick to beat City with.
Agree completely. Nobody gave a shit about net spend until Liverpool fans started crowing about the Coutinho sale.

Transfer sales are not the only way to generate funds.
 

I don’t think that says net spend is included in PSR, it’s just a really clumsy way of explaining amortisation to non-financial football fans.

Selling an academy player for £20m is more financially advantageous than selling a player who cost £100m for £50m one year into a five year contract.

But that’s just common sense rather than net spend being included in PSR.
 
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