How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

bluethrunthru said:
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He is absolutely right and good on him. What a self inflicted wound this has been, based on misinformation and outright lies. Even that epic fool Boris Johnson didnt believe in it and shat the bed the morning of the results. It just allowed for political expediency for ambitious self motivated liars to further their own careers. No wonder it has been a disaster, nobody spelled out any facts, just lies.

And that monster Nigel Farage, who plays to the worst instincts in ignorant people and drove around in a bus with a slogan which was a dreadful lie, is about to collect more votes today.

Shame on these tory bastards for inflicting this upon us, and shame on those who voted to leave based on utter lies, and worse, bigotry. Many still dont see the connection between the mess we are in today and them being sold a pup.
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
He is absolutely right and good on him. What a self inflicted wound this has been, based on misinformation and outright lies. Even that epic fool Boris Johnson didnt believe in it and shat the bed the morning of the results. It just allowed for political expediency for ambitious self motivated liars to further their own careers. No wonder it has been a disaster, nobody spelled out any facts, just lies.

And that monster Nigel Farage, who plays to the worst instincts in ignorant people and drove around in a bus with a slogan which was a dreadful lie, is about to collect more votes today.

Shame on these tory bastards for inflicting this upon us, and shame on those who voted to leave based on utter lies, and worse, bigotry. Many still dont see the connection between the mess we are in today and them being sold a pup.
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I expect Starmer to see the light after a while or face an internal fight as rejoiners in his Party put pressure on his leadership as we fall behind the EU
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
He is absolutely right and good on him. What a self inflicted wound this has been, based on misinformation and outright lies. Even that epic fool Boris Johnson didnt believe in it and shat the bed the morning of the results. It just allowed for political expediency for ambitious self motivated liars to further their own careers. No wonder it has been a disaster, nobody spelled out any facts, just lies.

And that monster Nigel Farage, who plays to the worst instincts in ignorant people and drove around in a bus with a slogan which was a dreadful lie, is about to collect more votes today.

Shame on these tory bastards for inflicting this upon us, and shame on those who voted to leave based on utter lies, and worse, bigotry. Many still dont see the connection between the mess we are in today and them being sold a pup.
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Cannot like this post enough
 
No one is a remainer anymore. That ship sailed half a decade ago.

Still, we can go back into the Single Market and Customs Union without a referendum, so that argument is not only out of date, it’s totally moot too.
 
mexico1970 said:
I see the remainers are still clinging on to the hope that there will be another referendum, it isn't going to happen.
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No you’re right there won’t , rejoin by stealth. Closer and closer ties easy does it.Not we have made the tory hard brexiteers irrelevant
 
Not sure the UK 'rejoining' would be entirely welcome by the EU Member States either at this point. Things have moved on and consolidated, and while all parties want and need closer cooperation, that will take time. Interestingly, even when right-wing parties have won power in their national assemblies, post 2016, they've shifted from talk of leaving to talk of reforming the EU. The heralded collapse that Farage so boldly predicted just hasn't happened for some reason.
 
Gabriel said:
Not sure the UK 'rejoining' would be entirely welcome by the EU Member States either at this point. Things have moved on and consolidated, and while all parties want and need closer cooperation, that will take time. Interestingly, even when right-wing parties have won power in their national assemblies, post 2016, they've shifted from talk of leaving to talk of reforming the EU. The heralded collapse that Farage so boldly predicted just hasn't happened for some reason.
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Exactly, and why Brexit is irrelevant in this election.
 
Gabriel said:
Not sure the UK 'rejoining' would be entirely welcome by the EU Member States either at this point. Things have moved on and consolidated, and while all parties want and need closer cooperation, that will take time. Interestingly, even when right-wing parties have won power in their national assemblies, post 2016, they've shifted from talk of leaving to talk of reforming the EU. The heralded collapse that Farage so boldly predicted just hasn't happened for some reason.
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The U.K. has a habit of overstating its importance. The glory days are long gone and most of Europe couldn’t give a toss about wherever it rejoins or not.
I’d personally like to see it happen eventually but honestly at this point I’m not overly arsed anymore.
 
Gabriel said:
Not sure the UK 'rejoining' would be entirely welcome by the EU Member States either at this point. Things have moved on and consolidated, and while all parties want and need closer cooperation, that will take time. Interestingly, even when right-wing parties have won power in their national assemblies, post 2016, they've shifted from talk of leaving to talk of reforming the EU. The heralded collapse that Farage so boldly predicted just hasn't happened for some reason.
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Member states still have to temper division within their own countries and that includes countries where the right have gained power. Look at France for example, Le Pen has gained a lot of traction and votes but France is divided just like the UK.

The right in France has united behind Le Pen and that has pushed her over the line but only in terms of seats in the French electoral system. 32% voted for Le Pen but remember that 50% voted for two parties that oppose Le Pen. If those two parties combine then she will likely have the most seats but get zero power.

With tomorrows expected result you could argue that the left is on the rise in the UK but it's not true. The reverse of France will happen tomorrow, Labour will win because the right has divided between the Tories and Reform. If Reform voters for example instead voted Tory today then Labour probably would not win tomorrow.

All of this rise and fall is just a product of electoral systems and not the rise of any particular ideology.

Brexit is a divided issue where we'd almost certainly need a general election which votes in a party that wants to rejoin. I just can't see that happening because certainly Labour cannot win on rejoin (they were obliterated on this in 2019) and there is no other party who will propose it.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Exactly, and why Brexit is irrelevant in this election.
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The issue itself is irrelevant but its consequences are deeply relevant. However, it appears that the U.K., in typically British fashion, still cannot even bring itself to discuss the consequences, so emotionally damaging the experience. Jumbo will just have to remain in the corner.
 
Gabriel said:
The issue itself is irrelevant but its consequences are deeply relevant. However, it appears that the U.K., in typically British fashion, still cannot even bring itself to discuss the consequences, so emotionally damaging the experience. Jumbo will just have to remain in the corner.
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I’m not sure any referendum will be on the horizon anytime soon.

At some point, I expect the CU and SM to be rejoined, but it’ll take time and be decided in Parliament, not in a referendum. In my opinion.
 
mexico1970 said:
Nope we shouldn't have had one, but we did and need to get on with the shit storm.
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I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean by needing to 'get on with the shit storm'. Are you suggesting that, having been handed a great steaming turd, we simply stand there contemplating Jacob Rees-Moggs' famous Brexit benefits (hint: there are none) while the stink pervades every facet of our lives? Alternatively, might those with half a brain and a modicum of integrity accept that they made a colossal mistake, acknowledge the buyer's regret felt by a majority of former Brexit advocates and consider means by which we can put this almighty clusterfuck right?
No, I thought not. Well, at least you have your blue passport.
 
Kippaxpete said:
I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean by needing to 'get on with the shit storm'. Are you suggesting that, having been handed a great steaming turd, we simply stand there contemplating Jacob Rees-Moggs' famous Brexit benefits (hint: there are none) while the stink pervades every facet of our lives? Alternatively, might those with half a brain and a modicum of integrity accept that they made a colossal mistake, acknowledge the buyer's regret felt by a majority of former Brexit advocates and consider means by which we can put this almighty clusterfuck right?
No, I thought not. Well, at least you have your blue passport.
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No, I meant it is over and we need to just get on with it, it has been 8 years and everyone needs to be onboard to make the clusterfuck work.

Saying it's shit for 8 years isn't exactly making it any better is it?
 
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