Gareth Southgate knighted

[better dead than red]

Do you have to start going down this road? It's a slightly different opinion that really isn't outrageous.

 

[Dazzle84]

We probably won't do as well as we have under Southgate - admittedly due to some ridiculously easy draws. He definitely switched the mood around the England team, but probably stayed on a tournament too long.

 

[WesthoughtonJohn]

That's a Holland side that France couldn't beat this tournament and a Swiss side that battered Italy and held Germany - The predicted outcome on the match day polls on here had England to lose against both these sides.

That had little to do with how good either of those sides were/are - and was a fair reflection of how inept England's performances had been to that point.
Let's face it we squeaked past Slovakia and Switzerland and were lucky to run into a bang average Dutch. If we'd been the other side of that draw there's no chance we make the final.
I'm glad for England fans who care that Southgate left, but don't expect the FA to get the next appointment right!

 

[blue by birth]

Very disrespectful to many good teams we have beaten, including Switzerland and Holland this tournament.

I wouldn't class Holland or Switzerland as decent teams to be honest but you can only beat what's in front of you..

 

[Gordyola]

No they wouldn’t, but you can’t if and but about the draw it’s a proper Red herring TBH we all know with a better manager we may well have won against Italy and probably reached a World cup final, it is what it is Sven had a great squad got us nowhere, Venables was a good manager with the best side in Euro 96 couldn’t make the final, England were arguably the best side at Italia 90 unlucky not to make the final. Southgates style of play made him a target but it almost worked and we lost to best side at the tournament by a mile.

Almost? But it didn't, because as soon as they came up against a better team it no longer worked and that is a fact so, its not a red herring at all its relevant to what they achieved when he was manager
Regardless of how well the other managers did the country were enthused there were flags and those stupid car banners everywhere, this time hardly any even during final weekend

 

[GortonBlue62]

Sorry but it’s just so funny seeing people who get angry about the FIFA world rankings every time they come out suddenly pretend they actually matter how they sort of (but not actually) help your argument.

Southgate is Englands most successful manager in 50 years, fact.

If you can’t admit that no FA would ever fire their most successful manager in living memory because they *only* achieved the best results in 50 years then perhaps you need to recognise you’ve lost all sense of rationality about Southgate.

The 'most succesful manager in 50 years' argument is too simplistic.

The PL's commercial success has brought about an influx of top foreign coaches and players which has had a massive positive influence on English football.

The PL academies are churning out large numbers of technically gifted players who are the equal of any other country.

Globally it seems that the gap between the traditional giants (Germany, Italy, Brazil etc.) and the minnows is greatly reduced.

All these factors have almost guaranteed that England will go deep into major tournaments.

This is the situation that GS found himself in and in crude statistical terms it gave him a huge advantage over previous England managers like Robson, Taylor etc.

I don't hate GS, I pity him. He was clearly out of his depth and while I wish him well, I'm glad he's gone.

 

[TonyM]

He's not even bald ffs.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Almost? But it didn't, because as soon as they came up against a better team it no longer worked and that is a fact so, its not a red herring at all its relevant to what they achieved when he was manager
Regardless of how well the other managers did the country were enthused there were flags and those stupid car banners everywhere, this time hardly any even during final weekend

Plenty near us tbf club we watched quarters semi and final in was rammed to rafters, for final they squeezed 10 extra tables in and 70 more chairs and opened upstairs function room another 300 seats and by half 4 there wasn’t a seat to be had, there wasn’t a lack of interest for sure.

 

[lancs blue]

Very disrespectful to many good teams we have beaten, including Switzerland and Holland this tournament.

Not disputing that both were very decent teams, but player for player England were a much better side on paper but both matches were very even, largely down to Southgate's inability to get the best out of his players.

 

[inchy14]

Sorry but it’s just so funny seeing people who get angry about the FIFA world rankings every time they come out suddenly pretend they actually matter how they sort of (but not actually) help your argument.

Southgate is Englands most successful manager in 50 years, fact.

If you can’t admit that no FA would ever fire their most successful manager in living memory because they *only* achieved the best results in 50 years then perhaps you need to recognise you’ve lost all sense of rationality about Southgate.

Successful is winning things, not taking teams to finals and losing.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Sorry but it’s just so funny seeing people who get angry about the FIFA world rankings every time they come out suddenly pretend they actually matter how they sort of (but not actually) help your argument.

Southgate is Englands most successful manager in 50 years, fact.

If you can’t admit that no FA would ever fire their most successful manager in living memory because they *only* achieved the best results in 50 years then perhaps you need to recognise you’ve lost all sense of rationality about Southgate.

You look at the stats and you are correct.

However a majority of the goals scored under his tenure have been against cannon fodder in easy qualifying groups.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Almost? But it didn't, because as soon as they came up against a better team it no longer worked and that is a fact so, its not a red herring at all its relevant to what they achieved when he was manager
Regardless of how well the other managers did the country were enthused there were flags and those stupid car banners everywhere, this time hardly any even during final weekend

Spain beat everyone they were the best side by far and England took them all the way and a desperate goal line clearance prevented extra time. Southgates gone now lets see if we can push on with a better style of play and hope we don’t get ko’d by the likes of Iceland

 

[oakiecokie]

However gets the job it will still be a poisoned chalice. Good luck to whoever throws their hat into the ring, as you`ll need it.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Successful is winning things, not taking teams to finals and losing.

That is a very simplistic way of viewing things. There are plenty of examples of managers being successful without actually winning anything.

If you compare the situation that Southgate inherited to what he has left, I don’t see how anyone can argue his stint has not been an overall success.

I understand the whole easy draw argument but he can only beat what’s in front of him. It wasn’t so long ago that England failed to beat the likes of Costa Rica, Iceland and USA in major tournaments. Now we are regularly making the latter stages.

His ultimate undoing seems to be based on our style of play and performances rather than results. You only have to look at the likes of United and Chelsea to realise it takes more than having quality individuals to become a team who plays great football. It’s even harder to get a side to gel at international level due to the lack of preparation time.

 

[thismeansfour]

Sorry but it’s just so funny seeing people who get angry about the FIFA world rankings every time they come out suddenly pretend they actually matter how they sort of (but not actually) help your argument.

Southgate is Englands most successful manager in 50 years, fact.

If you can’t admit that no FA would ever fire their most successful manager in living memory because they *only* achieved the best results in 50 years then perhaps you need to recognise you’ve lost all sense of rationality about Southgate.

The second you declare a man who won fuck all as successful your point is dead. Progression? Certainly in terms of reaching finals, would another manager have beaten the easy side of draw big nose constantly got? Probably. We got to finals in spite of him, not because of him. A better manager might have got us to the finals by beating the lesser, crap teams inside 90 minutes and not needing two lots of extra time. All hindsight isn't it. Southgate was garbage, if he done as well as you claim then he will get a top job next won't he. We all know he won't.

 

[thismeansfour]

That is a very simplistic way of viewing things. There are plenty of examples of managers being successful without actually winning anything.

If you compare the situation that Southgate inherited to what he has left, I don’t see how anyone can argue his stint has not been an overall success.

I understand the whole easy draw argument but he can only beat what’s in front of him. It wasn’t so long ago that England failed to beat the likes of Costa Rica, Iceland and USA in major tournaments. Now we are regularly making the latter stages.

His ultimate undoing seems to be based on our style of play and performances rather than results. You only have to look at the likes of United and Chelsea to realise it takes more than having quality individuals to become a team who plays great football. It’s even harder to get a side to gel at international level due to the lack of preparation time.

This whole forum is happy Ten Haag is staying at United. He has won two cups in two years playing crap football. Southgate stumbling to a final and choking (again) is on him. 8 years he has had. Have we beat anyone ranked higher than us or supposedly better than us? So he has just beaten teams that we are expected to beat, nothing more, nothing less He even tries to make a meal out of that.

2 wins in 90 minutes in 7 games.

 

[mattcity5]

His comments about disabled people was uncalled for regardless of what he did with the team.

I heard that live on the radio.

It wasn't reported kindly.

Hoddle was basically saying how he would see the ill or disabled and wonder how his God would allow it. He was trying to fit that in with his strong religious beliefs. If he'd left it at that it probably would have been fine. But then he tried to fit in the idea of maybe it being due to something from a previous life.

Obviously that caused a bit of fuss. He certainly wasn't meaning to sound cruel though, but when it was reported and you just read the words in print......

 

[mattcity5]

The irony of bringing up Spain in this conversation is that if the FA appointed the English equivalent of Luis de la Fuente, you and half the forum would be spitting feathers.

A 60 year old with zero experience managing in the top flight and underwhelming results as the u21 coach. He's basically the Spanish Jason Wilcox.

I'd prefer someone with zero experience of managing in the top flight to Southgate's experience of managing in the top flight.

 

[Magicpole]

Peps never going to take it, even if offered. The question is who replaces him? I can’t see any outstanding candidates. Not English ones anyway.

Does he need to be English? If so who? If not, who?

 

[zandvoort blue]

So getting to the final playing turgid football and losing to the first decent side we met is classed as a success. If Georgia had had our favourable draw I would have fancied them to get to the final. And they would have made more of a fist of trying to win the final. I just hope to God we install a manager that has some passion, and doesn`t wear a bloody waistcoat.