Racism in Football

[Vialli98]

It's from the last world cup.

Interestingly in the comment sections there seems to be a big divide between native Africans and people with African heritage who live in European countries. The latter are massively offended, whereas the former pretty much agree with the chant. They see the French players as betraying their African heritage to play for a Colonial power because they can make more money.

Yes some Africans say they believe European players with African heritage are betraying their heritage by choosing to represent a European country. In my experience, it's often born out of bitterness because a top player who qualified to play for their specific country chose to represent France or whatever. It would be a pretty huge deal for Algeria, for example, had Benzema played for them all these years - more World Cup appearances and most likely more AFCON success, so you can see why the bitterness is there.

The existence of these rather fringe African views doesn't excuse the Argentines chanting a racist chant however. I know you're not saying that, but it's worth pointing out in this thread anyway because people too often use these African jokes about French players' heritage as a reason to give blanket pardons to the Argentinian NT.

 

[KS55]

I’m qualified for both England and Wales. If only I could play football….

 

[Bigga]

I'm not saying it wasn't racist, I was just explaining what the intention of the song was, understanding, more than anyone here, the idiosyncrasy of Argentinian football chants. Also, being bilingual, realizing what is lost in translation and sounds worse than it actually was intended in Argentinian slang.


Spoken like a true xenophobe.

Full disclosure; I haven't heard the whole song. But, from what I believe, the song singles out the Black players of France. If this is not the case, I apologise.

However, if this IS the case, are you defending the chants as being the "idiosyncrasy of Argentina"??

I'm reading your comments and don't quite understand where you stand with it.

 

[Bigga]

You must be fucking stupid then

I wasn't making any conclusions, I was making an observation.

It's not me that's "stupid".

"Stupid" would be tying a totally irrelevant 'observation' to this particular issue... which was your particular 'observation. If you haven't drawn a conclusion, what the point of the diversion for something you seem not to understand.

 

[River Plate]

Full disclosure; I haven't heard the whole song. But, from what I believe, the song singles out the Black players of France. If this is not the case, I apologise.

However, if this IS the case, are you defending the chants as being the "idiosyncrasy of Argentina"??

I'm reading your comments and don't quite understand where you stand with it.

I'm not defending the chant at all, it's ignorant, racist and transphobic. I'm just giving context and trying to explain why a person singing said song doesn't automatically make him a racist or transphobe.

90% of Argentinian football chants have some kind of homophobic/xenophobic/classist/racist remarks, or idiolizes violence and/or drugs.

At the game I might sing something like "tonight we are getting f*cked up and gonna kill those bosteros (boca juniors fans) f*gg*ts" yet I don't do drugs, I have never killed nobody, I'm not homophobic and have lots of boca junior friends. It is just something that you say on a specific context but that you don't actually believe or condone at all.

It would be like saying all 90's rappers are homophobic because they used the F word. In Latin America, the PC culture isn't as big as it is in Europe and the US.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Football chants being abusive ?

Who knew

 

[Bigga]

I'm not defending the chant at all, it's ignorant, racist and transphobic. I'm just giving context and trying to explain why a person singing said song doesn't automatically make him a racist or transphobe.

90% of Argentinian football chants have some kind of homophobic/xenophobic/classist/racist remarks, or idiolizes violence and/or drugs.

At the game I might sing something like "tonight we are getting f*cked up and gonna kill those bosteros (boca juniors fans) f*gg*ts" yet I don't do drugs, I have never killed nobody, I'm not homophobic and have lots of boca junior friends. It is just something that you say on a specific context but that you don't actually believe or condone at all.

It would be like saying all 90's rappers are homophobic because they used the F word. In Latin America, the PC culture isn't as big as it is in Europe and the US.

Thanks for responding.

Just for context 90s rappers WERE homophobic, using that word, but it's a culture that had to be unlearned.

I hope the same can be said of the national team.

 

[River Plate]

Thanks for responding.

Just for context 90s rappers WERE homophobic, using that word, but it's a culture that had to be unlearned.

I hope the same can be said of the national team.

To me there's a huge difference between ignorantly having discriminatory actions (which absolutely all of us have had at some point of our lives) vs being a true bigot.

Nowadays, the true bigots are probably the most PC of all. They will never say anything out of place in public but in their privacy be the biggest pieces of sh*t.

 

[Bigga]

To me there's a huge difference between ignorantly having discriminatory actions (which absolutely all of us have had at some point of our lives) vs being a true bigot.

Nowadays, the true bigots are probably the most PC of all. They will never say anything out of place in public but in their privacy be the biggest pieces of sh*t.

I completely agree with what you say about bigots, yes.

However, if you hear the words, understand the words and sing the words of a song/ chant you know is discriminatory it's YOU, the individual, making an active choice to participate. That, no longer, becomes 'ignorant', but wilful.

Nobody can force you to take part.

 

[Vialli98]

I completely agree with what you say about bigots, yes.

However, if you hear the words, understand the words and sing the words of a song/ chant you know is discriminatory it's YOU, the individual, making an active choice to participate. That, no longer, becomes 'ignorant', but wilful.

Nobody can force you to take part.

The fact that this isn't a new chant, and it's one that's been going since 2022, completely washes away any excuses about ignorance.

 

[River Plate]

I completely agree with what you say about bigots, yes.

However, if you hear the words, understand the words and sing the words of a song/ chant you know is discriminatory it's YOU, the individual, making an active choice to participate. That, no longer, becomes 'ignorant', but wilful.

Nobody can force you to take part.

But that's the thing, sometimes you don't realize what you are saying, or you think it's OK in a specific context.

I'm sure 99% of 90's rappers didn't actually thought about gay people when using the F word.

Another example: one of my best friends is gay, and when we go to matches, he sings along those songs with homophobic slurs like it's nothing.

 

[River Plate]

The fact that this isn't a new chant, and it's one that's been going since 2022, completely washes away any excuses about ignorance.

It's ignorant because here it is used as an anti-colonialism chant, while omitting how racist it is. It also lacks self-awareness, since every single person in Argentina has immigrant ancestry.

But then again, nobody here thinks twice about the lyrics nor take it as serious as in other parts of the World. That's where the "ignorance" comes from.

 

[Vialli98]

It's ignorant because here it is used as an anti-colonialism chant, while omitting how racist it is. It also lacks self-awareness, since every single person in Argentina has immigrant ancestry.

It was also transphobic and homophobic as well as racist, and this chant has been in existence since 2022, so I’m afraid ignorance is not enough of an excuse. I also don’t buy the anti colonial argument because they specifically targeted the black French players with no mention of Griezmann, the Hernandez brothers, Giroud etc who have Spanish, Italian and German heritage.

 

[bridgeno1]

Not a good few days for Enzo Fernandez

Enzo Fernandez: World Cup and Chelsea FC star guilty after driving offence

The Argentina player failed to identify himself to police after a traffic violation last year.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[River Plate]

It was also transphobic and homophobic as well as racist, and this chant has been in existence since 2022, so I’m afraid ignorance is not enough of an excuse. I also don’t buy the anti colonial argument because they specifically targeted the black French players with no mention of Griezmann, the Hernandez brothers, Giroud etc who have Spanish, Italian and German heritage.

But that's exactly the ignorance, the folks that made that song didn't think of the white players as French immigrants.

If yall think this song is bad, you don't want to hear the original version, which Nueva Chicago made for Duck Sud (two lower tier Argentinian teams) XD

 

[Bigga]

But that's the thing, sometimes you don't realize what you are saying, or you think it's OK in a specific context.

I'm sure 99% of 90's rappers didn't actually thought about gay people when using the F word.

Another example: one of my best friends is gay, and when we go to matches, he sings along those songs with homophobic slurs like it's nothing.

My friend, you will NEVER meet a 90s rapper that will throw his hands up and say they didn't know about the F word. None!

Even the women that used it, back in the day, did so because it WAS a slur! As re-education has taken hold, it might be 2%-5% that use it like it's 'cool' now. I might have heard in once in 10 years, if that, with new music.

You seem bright and articulate your discussion well, but you're making excuses when you don't need to.

As for one of your best friends singing along, that seems like him accepting the situation just to be 'one of the boys' and 'going along to get along'. Not judging him, but it's almost like self-hate to join in with chants that are about him, in reality.

Just an outside PoV and I don't know him.

 

[Metalartin]

My first thought from the short clip was: 'hang on, maybe they are actually just saying France are cheating, in a way, rather than digging out the players' but the more verses you read, the worse it gets. There's no defending it.

This is not one of those occasions where PC-Culture is looking for offence and forcing it. We do still need to understand other parts of the world are further behind on these matters and make sure the reaction is proportionate/reasonable.

 

[Bigga]

It's ignorant because here it is used as an anti-colonialism chant, while omitting how racist it is. It also lacks self-awareness, since every single person in Argentina has immigrant ancestry.

But then again, nobody here thinks twice about the lyrics nor take it as serious as in other parts of the World. That's where the "ignorance" comes from.

Interesting as I just msgd you with the bit on the end regarding self-hate.

What you say is true about the immigrant ancestry and I could just as much attach the 'self-hate' observation to the nationals that sing this, too.

They're just watered down.

 

[Bigga]

It was also transphobic and homophobic as well as racist, and this chant has been in existence since 2022, so I’m afraid ignorance is not enough of an excuse. I also don’t buy the anti colonial argument because they specifically targeted the black French players with no mention of Griezmann, the Hernandez brothers, Giroud etc who have Spanish, Italian and German heritage.

Yes, this was the point made before.

I wasn't completely sure, but you know better than I.

 

[Stephen230]

What's Argentina's role, that it supossedly harbored Nazis? Ok, how's that any more significant than having a zoo of black people in 1994?

Sorry, I know you have multiple people all firing questions at you but could you explain what this ‘zoo of black people in 1994’ refers to?