President Trump

After the election there has to be a returns to normalcy, with debate based on the issues not personality. The GOP must work at this non stop or they are doomed. It will take many years but I am hopeful. Surely America cannot carry on like this. Europe and the world need such a realignement.
 
KS55 said:
After the election there has to be a returns to normalcy, with debate based on the issues not personality. The GOP must work at this non stop or they are doomed. It will take many years but I am hopeful. Surely America cannot carry on like this. Europe and the world need such a realignement.
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I think it depends on the result.

Trump wins and that's the Republicans done for a generation imo.

Trump loses, they get some of the Republicans for Harris lot back, and they weed out the more extreme elements of MAGA and they might be a normal political party in a decade or so.
 
moomba said:
I think it depends on the result.

Trump wins and that's the Republicans done for a generation imo.

Trump loses, they get some of the Republicans for Harris lot back, and they weed out the more extreme elements of MAGA and they might be a normal political party in a decade or so.
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But where do the MAGA lot turn to? They aren’t going away. The country will inevitably fracture imo. Can’t see any other outcome, long term.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
But where do the MAGA lot turn to? They aren’t going away. The country will inevitably fracture imo. Can’t see any other outcome, long term.
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A third major party is inevitable imo. Either the Trump lot, after the Republicans finally realising he isn't the answer or the more moderate Republicans once they realise their party is now Trumps party.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
But where do the MAGA lot turn to? They aren’t going away. The country will inevitably fracture imo. Can’t see any other outcome, long term.
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Of course they'll go away. It's a PERSONALITY CULT. If Trump loses, it loses, and when Trump dies, it dies. There'll be a fight as to which Trump-lite figure takes over the "movement" next, but they'll all be pale imitations (and won't have the money); said figures will disagree and battle it out publicly; MAGA will splinter; former rapturous adherents will become disillusioned and drift away (since Trump was the only reason they voted in the first place); the base is plurality old, white, male and sub-educated, and eventually THEY die, etc. etc. Just like every other cult except maybe Scientology, but that cult wasn't so much personality-based as a multi-level marketing scheme.

It just sucks to have to wait for it. And it's worrying in case he does get power again -- how will he or can he take his revenge (and how will he fuck up the economy)?
 
moomba said:
A third major party is inevitable imo. Either the Trump lot, after the Republicans finally realising he isn't the answer or the more moderate Republicans once they realise their party is now Trumps party.
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They've all died; a new third party will be no different. Moderate Republicans already know their party is Trump's party -- their choices are to quit in protest, meekly retire while saying nothing, or say "Ja wohl" and go along for the ride. And if the latter, try to stay out of the line of fire and re-emerge from their holes when Trump is gone and act like everything is normal again -- unless they rode the coattails of MAGA; then they can vie for being Trump 2.0 or align with the candidates for the role (which will end up as I've described in the post above).
 
KS55 said:
After the election there has to be a returns to normalcy, with debate based on the issues not personality. The GOP must work at this non stop or they are doomed. It will take many years but I am hopeful. Surely America cannot carry on like this. Europe and the world need such a realignement.
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Hmmmm, interesting thesis…

Watch this:

 
ChicagoBlue said:
Hmmmm, interesting thesis…

Watch this:

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only really interesting if you’re well into deep state conspiracy theories. Whilst he might be articulate, he lost me when he said Donald Trump is incredibly intelligent. I’ve seen nothing to support that. The sort of controlling/stabilising world order preservation he talks about would not have allowed Fox News, Brexit and Liz Truss to name but a few!! ;-)
 
Brightwell’s left peg said:
only really interesting if you’re well into deep state conspiracy theories. Whilst he might be articulate, he lost me when he said Donald Trump is incredibly intelligent. I’ve seen nothing to support that. The sort of controlling/stabilising world order preservation he talks about would not have allowed Fox News, Brexit and Liz Truss to name but a few!! ;-)
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And where are they now???

Additionally, I was posting a video that supported, to some degree, the notion of larger forces at play. I was not subscribing to anything in the video, but rather the poster (@KS55 ) should watch the video if he believed his own thesis that America needs a “realignment.”
 
KS55 said:
After the election there has to be a returns to normalcy, with debate based on the issues not personality. The GOP must work at this non stop or they are doomed. It will take many years but I am hopeful. Surely America cannot carry on like this. Europe and the world need such a realignement.
Click to expand...

You are assuming Trump loses?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Of course they'll go away. It's a PERSONALITY CULT. If Trump loses, it loses, and when Trump dies, it dies. There'll be a fight as to which Trump-lite figure takes over the "movement" next, but they'll all be pale imitations (and won't have the money); said figures will disagree and battle it out publicly; MAGA will splinter; former rapturous adherents will become disillusioned and drift away (since Trump was the only reason they voted in the first place); the base is plurality old, white, male and sub-educated, and eventually THEY die, etc. etc. Just like every other cult except maybe Scientology, but that cult wasn't so much personality-based as a multi-level marketing scheme.

It just sucks to have to wait for it. And it's worrying in case he does get power again -- how will he or can he take his revenge (and how will he fuck up the economy)?
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I’m not as convinced as you that they will simply disappear. I think the best that can be hoped for is Trump gets roughly 45% of the popular vote. This is despite all the evidence that he is utterly unfit for office and in severe mental decline. It’s an astonishing number given how he presents himself and to simply attribute all those votes to the cult of the individual is hugely simplifying things.

There’s the evangelicals for a start. They aren’t going away and they represent a vision of America that is wholly at odds with others in a way that seems irreconcilable. You then have a body of white working class people who have been left behind as American industry declines and gets displaced to the developing world, as it will most likely continue to. These two grouping alone count for (I guess) a third of the electorate and their grievances aren’t going away, especially when, if Trump loses, the President will be stridently pro-choice.

What has been remarkable about Trump is his ability to appeal to both those groupings simultaneously, especially the Evangelicals, given he is plainly a wholly Godless individual and I think it will be difficult for someone to repeat the same trick, but irrespective, from what I’ve observed, I think neither grouping will simply disappear and will require a political home, which is likely to widen the divisions in the nation if it is away from the Republican Party.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m not as convinced as you that they will simply disappear. I think the best that can be hoped for is Trump gets roughly 45% of the popular vote. This is despite all the evidence that he is utterly unfit for office and in severe mental decline. It’s an astonishing number given how he presents himself and to simply attribute all those votes to the cult of the individual is hugely simplifying things.

There’s the evangelicals for a start. They aren’t going away and they represent a vision of America that is wholly at odds with others in a way that seems irreconcilable. You then have a body of white working class people who have been left behind as American industry declines and gets displaced to the developing world, as it will most likely continue to. These two grouping alone count for (I guess) a third of the electorate and their grievances aren’t going away, especially when, if Trump loses, the President will be stridently pro-choice.

What has been remarkable about Trump is his ability to appeal to both those groupings simultaneously, especially the Evangelicals, given he is plainly a wholly Godless individual and I think it will be difficult for someone to repeat the same trick, but irrespective, from what I’ve observed, I think neither grouping will simply disappear and will require a political home, which is likely to widen the divisions in the nation if it is away from the Republican Party.
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Good doc' that backs up some of the points you make

www.sky.com

An American Bombing: The Road to April 19th

...April 19th. Explore the surge in political violence through the story of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the deadliest homegrown attack in US history.
www.sky.com www.sky.com
 
ChicagoBlue said:
And where are they now???

Additionally, I was posting a video that supported, to some degree, the notion of larger forces at play. I was not subscribing to anything in the video, but rather the poster (@KS55 ) should watch the video if he believed his own thesis that America needs a “realignment.”
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I’m currently working in Houston and Fox News is still shining brightly (unfortunately)

Brexit is still running strong.

Liz was allowed to get into the role (he’s suggesting Trump will be stopped before it’s allowed)

I’m not naive enough to suggest there aren’t lobbying powers and influence behind the scene, I just think he goes too far in suggesting how controlled things are.

Democracy works to a degree, but the greatest issue with Democracy is it relies on a well educated/informed voting population. The shit shows we get are more of a result of that than of controlling forces (in my opinion).

I’d say it was an “entertaining” thesis rather than an “interesting” one.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m not as convinced as you that they will simply disappear. I think the best that can be hoped for is Trump gets roughly 45% of the popular vote. This is despite all the evidence that he is utterly unfit for office and in severe mental decline. It’s an astonishing number given how he presents himself and to simply attribute all those votes to the cult of the individual is hugely simplifying things.

There’s the evangelicals for a start. They aren’t going away and they represent a vision of America that is wholly at odds with others in a way that seems irreconcilable. You then have a body of white working class people who have been left behind as American industry declines and gets displaced to the developing world, as it will most likely continue to. These two grouping alone count for (I guess) a third of the electorate and their grievances aren’t going away, especially when, if Trump loses, the President will be stridently pro-choice.

What has been remarkable about Trump is his ability to appeal to both those groupings simultaneously, especially the Evangelicals, given he is plainly a wholly Godless individual and I think it will be difficult for someone to repeat the same trick, but irrespective, from what I’ve observed, I think neither grouping will simply disappear and will require a political home, which is likely to widen the divisions in the nation if it is away from the Republican Party.
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1. But I believe the majority of the 45% are simply people who have always voted Republican, not MAGA necessarily.

2. Evangelicals have always been around and always will be. That’s not changing. The “world has passed us by and I’m angry” types — that’s a little bit newer, or different than it was. The way I’d put it — social media has made them quite keenly aware of their “failings” or, better put, the success of others.

3. You’re right that an obviously Godless man has unified Evangelicals is odd. Of course, IMO, Evangelicals are looking for easy answers to complicated questions. That’s why they embrace what they do (or why it’s easy for grifters to sell them the answers). Trump taps the same vibe.

4. All populist movements in the US have eventually died out, or are killed. Again that’s because those in power historically are centrists, and centrism benefits the rich. If certain Southern states gradually go blue due to in-migration as the West has, under the EC, the GOP won’t be able to get a presidential candidate elected without changing its platform/rhetoric, and MAGA gets effectively defunded because it’s not a winning message. That religious shysterism has spilled into the political arena can’t make grifting pastors that happy — do you want MAGA buying Trump gear or giving the money to you? God will take back what is His, I assure you, and religion will be the opiate (and profit center) it once was as opposed to politics.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
1. But I believe the majority of the 45% are simply people who have always voted Republican, not MAGA necessarily.

2. Evangelicals have always been around and always will be. That’s not changing. The “world has passed us by and I’m angry” types — that’s a little bit newer, or different than it was. The way I’d put it — social media has made them quite keenly aware of their “failings” or, better put, the success of others.

3. You’re right that an obviously Godless man has unified Evangelicals is odd. Of course, IMO, Evangelicals are looking for easy answers to complicated questions. That’s why they embrace what they do (or why it’s easy for grifters to sell them the answers). Trump taps the same vibe.

4. All populist movements in the US have eventually died out, or are killed. Again that’s because those in power historically are centrists, and centrism benefits the rich. If certain Southern states gradually go blue due to in-migration as the West has, under the EC, the GOP won’t be able to get a presidential candidate elected without changing its platform/rhetoric, and MAGA gets effectively defunded because it’s not a winning message. That religious shysterism has spilled into the political arena can’t make grifting pastors that happy — do you want MAGA buying Trump gear or giving the money to you? God will take back what is His, I assure you, and religion will be the opiate (and profit center) it once was as opposed to politics.
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I'd put all Trump voters into 2 camps:-

1 the low education / easily conned dumb ass base. They watch fox news and like what they see. They shut out everything that challenges the simple safe traditional values they are advocating (ignoring the negatives like blatant racism and misogyn). Most evangelicals fit this type.

2 the smart but cynical right wing self centred types who know that Trump is a grifter and compulsive liar but they don't have a problem with it as they are on board with the broad program of divisive and regressive politics and a government that doesn't function well (many would prefer no federal government or taxes at all).
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
I'd put all Trump voters into 2 camps:-

1 the low education / easily conned dumb ass base. They watch fox news and like what they see. They shut out everything that challenges the simple safe traditional values they are advocating (ignoring the negatives like blatant racism and misogyn). Most evangelicals fit this type.

2 the smart but cynical right wing self centred types who know that Trump is a grifter and compulsive liar but they don't have a problem with it as they are on board with the broad program of divisive and regressive politics and a government that doesn't function well (many would prefer no federal government or taxes at all).
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I’d say there’s a third group who aren’t specifically interested in policy other than ones that will make them money and will vote for Trump if they become richer as a result.
 
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