dronefromsector7G
Well-Known Member
It’s ironic it used to be called the European Cup, then when it became the Champion’s League teams didnt need to be champions to get in
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New CL Format Thoughts
- Thread starter MCFC1993
- Start date
I was exactly the same,wasn’t bothered at all really. Absolutely no jeopardy whatsoever. Top 24 go through, ridiculous.Expectedly dog shit. I wasn’t even arsed about the game last night.
I'm undecided.
One benefit of this strange new "Swiss" system we've ended up with is that the matches further on in the league stage will mean more. It does at least force teams to play until the very last minute of the round really. That last matchday in January is gonna be chaos - you're potentially looking at a night where roughly 15-20 teams could change position in the league, either dropping out altogether, requiring a play-off, or going through automatically. And even the teams who are already through will be playing for first and second and third, etc. to improve their chances of getting a better seeded draw in the knockouts. It has its benefits.
On the other hand, it's pretty obviously a concession made by UEFA to the Super League clubs to give them more TV revenue and more of a chance of getting through anyway. Say PSG struggle in their league fixtures (Arsenal, Atletico, Bayern, and Manchester City for them) and finish in 17th place. No problem, just give them a play-off against a weaker team who got a relatively fortunate run of games in this league bit (say, Celtic) and finished in 13th - boom, easy PSG win over two legs and through they go. FOUR more games of TV revenue and potentially SIX more games than they would have had if they'd struggled in the old group stage.
The same goes for us really. We'll likely end up with 15-20 points from these games (Inter D, Bratislava W, Sparta W, Sporting W, Feyenoord W, Juventus D, PSG D/L, Brugge W) which should be enough for a top eight finish, but if it's only enough for a 10th place finish we'll likely get drawn against someone like Monaco or Stuttgart anyway. Just feels like there's a real lack of jeopardy for top clubs because they know even something as low as a 50% win record is enough to at least get them a knockout play-off. In some ways this just exacerbates the problem from the group stage where nine points was usually enough to go through in 2nd.
What UEFA need to understand is that consistent excitement only comes in knockout games, and even then it's only really second legs where things go crazy.
But no matter how much twiddling and fiddling they do, they'll never accept that a 32 (or even 64) team tournament with straight knockouts in every round is the most exciting format because the most exciting format isn't necessarily the most lucrative, for shareholders and the like. The traditional format was fine. Even the 21st century Champions League format (groups, Ro16, quarters, etc.) was fine, they should have just made the groups shorter to increase the jeopardy and variety of teams getting through. As it is, it just feels like we're taking longer to get to the same point. I think this new format has its merits and they'll become clearer as the league goes on, but the jury's out.
One benefit of this strange new "Swiss" system we've ended up with is that the matches further on in the league stage will mean more. It does at least force teams to play until the very last minute of the round really. That last matchday in January is gonna be chaos - you're potentially looking at a night where roughly 15-20 teams could change position in the league, either dropping out altogether, requiring a play-off, or going through automatically. And even the teams who are already through will be playing for first and second and third, etc. to improve their chances of getting a better seeded draw in the knockouts. It has its benefits.
On the other hand, it's pretty obviously a concession made by UEFA to the Super League clubs to give them more TV revenue and more of a chance of getting through anyway. Say PSG struggle in their league fixtures (Arsenal, Atletico, Bayern, and Manchester City for them) and finish in 17th place. No problem, just give them a play-off against a weaker team who got a relatively fortunate run of games in this league bit (say, Celtic) and finished in 13th - boom, easy PSG win over two legs and through they go. FOUR more games of TV revenue and potentially SIX more games than they would have had if they'd struggled in the old group stage.
The same goes for us really. We'll likely end up with 15-20 points from these games (Inter D, Bratislava W, Sparta W, Sporting W, Feyenoord W, Juventus D, PSG D/L, Brugge W) which should be enough for a top eight finish, but if it's only enough for a 10th place finish we'll likely get drawn against someone like Monaco or Stuttgart anyway. Just feels like there's a real lack of jeopardy for top clubs because they know even something as low as a 50% win record is enough to at least get them a knockout play-off. In some ways this just exacerbates the problem from the group stage where nine points was usually enough to go through in 2nd.
What UEFA need to understand is that consistent excitement only comes in knockout games, and even then it's only really second legs where things go crazy.
But no matter how much twiddling and fiddling they do, they'll never accept that a 32 (or even 64) team tournament with straight knockouts in every round is the most exciting format because the most exciting format isn't necessarily the most lucrative, for shareholders and the like. The traditional format was fine. Even the 21st century Champions League format (groups, Ro16, quarters, etc.) was fine, they should have just made the groups shorter to increase the jeopardy and variety of teams getting through. As it is, it just feels like we're taking longer to get to the same point. I think this new format has its merits and they'll become clearer as the league goes on, but the jury's out.
SamBlue
Well-Known Member
I quite like it, no 'dead rubber ' games in the group phase, because every point and goal difference matter, more games, more opportunity to watch football, what's there not to like?!?
Keepingthefaithsince1976
Well-Known Member
Finishing in the top 8 is the priority.
ninjamonkey
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- 5 Jun 2009
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Same opinion as when it was announced, it's going to make for an even more boring first stage than usual.
UEFA can claim they want to make the first stage more appealing but we all know it's purely about getting extra games in for more money and the result is the opposite of what they claim.
There is practically zero jeopardy in it now for most of the big teams, it was rare a big team would go out in the groups but it did happen from time to time, if a fancied team lost one of their home games it at least put pressure on the rest of the fixtures, now though there's next to no chance of not finishing in the top 24. We could lose first 4 games and still qualify.
A team like us or Madrid or bayern could realistically play a second string side in every game, comfortably finish in the top 24 if not the top 8 and then play a strong team in the play off and get through that way, it's a little more risk in it that isn't going to be the obvious route those teams will look to at first but I honestly think after a year of this new format and we see how much of a toll it takes on the players, especially if one of the bigger teams league form is impacted we will see a team adopt that approach and once one team does it, all the bigger sides will and you essentially create a league version of the early carabao cup games
If we put 8 carabao cup level sides out in the league stage, we'd likely lose to an inter and psg level of side but we'd still win the games against the likes of Bratislava and sparta prague to qualify with ease and then could be well rested for the premier league games, that advantage could make a huge impact on our ability to win the league and then we go strong in the knockouts.
8 games at full strength to avoid playing an extra 2 but rinse your first team with 3 games a week for 5 months solid and have a shattered squad when it matters or 8 games with a largely second string, give your players the odd rest, play those extra 2 games if needed and go into the latter parts of the season fresher and probably in a better league position. Seems like an inevitability to me, just needs somebody to take the small risk and it'll become the norm.
UEFA can claim they want to make the first stage more appealing but we all know it's purely about getting extra games in for more money and the result is the opposite of what they claim.
There is practically zero jeopardy in it now for most of the big teams, it was rare a big team would go out in the groups but it did happen from time to time, if a fancied team lost one of their home games it at least put pressure on the rest of the fixtures, now though there's next to no chance of not finishing in the top 24. We could lose first 4 games and still qualify.
A team like us or Madrid or bayern could realistically play a second string side in every game, comfortably finish in the top 24 if not the top 8 and then play a strong team in the play off and get through that way, it's a little more risk in it that isn't going to be the obvious route those teams will look to at first but I honestly think after a year of this new format and we see how much of a toll it takes on the players, especially if one of the bigger teams league form is impacted we will see a team adopt that approach and once one team does it, all the bigger sides will and you essentially create a league version of the early carabao cup games
If we put 8 carabao cup level sides out in the league stage, we'd likely lose to an inter and psg level of side but we'd still win the games against the likes of Bratislava and sparta prague to qualify with ease and then could be well rested for the premier league games, that advantage could make a huge impact on our ability to win the league and then we go strong in the knockouts.
8 games at full strength to avoid playing an extra 2 but rinse your first team with 3 games a week for 5 months solid and have a shattered squad when it matters or 8 games with a largely second string, give your players the odd rest, play those extra 2 games if needed and go into the latter parts of the season fresher and probably in a better league position. Seems like an inevitability to me, just needs somebody to take the small risk and it'll become the norm.
SamBlue
Well-Known Member
Yes and that is the reason why last night game mattered more than if it was a group phase game. Not only top 8 is priority, but top 16 as well. We don't want to end up playing the second leg away in front of some super-hostile crowd.Finishing in the top 8 is the priority.
This League Phase seems to be a money spinning exercise for the boardrooms and shareholders of all the clubs, who are all gutted that the Super League didn’t take off, who are using their players as entertainers rather than serious athletes to be paraded in front of the TV audience for the TV revenue while fleecing attending fans out of as much of their spare cash as possible.
The two biggest games of the a week: City v Inter and Milan v Liverpool didn’t sell out, fans voted with their feet (I thought our prices were expensive but at Milan prices started at €140 for non-season ticket holders), but will anyone care when the TV revenue hits their bank accounts?
As long as a load of tourists bought match packages worth hundreds and in some cases thousands of pounds/lira, they definitely won’t care about some empty seats.
Once the money-spinning has finished, the serious stuff starts, like usual, at the Quarter final stage.
The only good thing is that there are, in theory, more high profile fixtures than the old Group Stage, but, like last night showed, that doesn’t mean they’ll be classic games.
The two biggest games of the a week: City v Inter and Milan v Liverpool didn’t sell out, fans voted with their feet (I thought our prices were expensive but at Milan prices started at €140 for non-season ticket holders), but will anyone care when the TV revenue hits their bank accounts?
As long as a load of tourists bought match packages worth hundreds and in some cases thousands of pounds/lira, they definitely won’t care about some empty seats.
Once the money-spinning has finished, the serious stuff starts, like usual, at the Quarter final stage.
The only good thing is that there are, in theory, more high profile fixtures than the old Group Stage, but, like last night showed, that doesn’t mean they’ll be classic games.
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far less jeopardy in this new format, however i like the fact its 8 different teams.
Yeah if you don't get top 8 your in a playoff two legged knockout
chesterbells
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- 15 Apr 2010
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- 26,919
Agreed. But just unlucky for us.Luck of the draw, unless you believe the draw was rigged.
cmcm0808
Well-Known Member
Good point about teams resting their best players and playing squad players in the group stages with a focus of finishing in the top 24.Same opinion as when it was announced, it's going to make for an even more boring first stage than usual.
UEFA can claim they want to make the first stage more appealing but we all know it's purely about getting extra games in for more money and the result is the opposite of what they claim.
There is practically zero jeopardy in it now for most of the big teams, it was rare a big team would go out in the groups but it did happen from time to time, if a fancied team lost one of their home games it at least put pressure on the rest of the fixtures, now though there's next to no chance of not finishing in the top 24. We could lose first 4 games and still qualify.
A team like us or Madrid or bayern could realistically play a second string side in every game, comfortably finish in the top 24 if not the top 8 and then play a strong team in the play off and get through that way, it's a little more risk in it that isn't going to be the obvious route those teams will look to at first but I honestly think after a year of this new format and we see how much of a toll it takes on the players, especially if one of the bigger teams league form is impacted we will see a team adopt that approach and once one team does it, all the bigger sides will and you essentially create a league version of the early carabao cup games
If we put 8 carabao cup level sides out in the league stage, we'd likely lose to an inter and psg level of side but we'd still win the games against the likes of Bratislava and sparta prague to qualify with ease and then could be well rested for the premier league games, that advantage could make a huge impact on our ability to win the league and then we go strong in the knockouts.
8 games at full strength to avoid playing an extra 2 but rinse your first team with 3 games a week for 5 months solid and have a shattered squad when it matters or 8 games with a largely second string, give your players the odd rest, play those extra 2 games if needed and go into the latter parts of the season fresher and probably in a better league position. Seems like an inevitability to me, just needs somebody to take the small risk and it'll become the norm.
mexico1970
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- Manchester City
It’s ironic it used to be called the European Cup, then when it became the Champion’s League teams didnt need to be champions to get in
The scousers won the cup after finishing 4th in the league and losing 3 games in the competition. There's nowt champions about it.
Hate the new format, its unfair as group tournaments meant everyone in a group played each other so those who qualified did so on merit. Here its the pure luck of the draw. Add to that extra games which is not needed with the crazy schedule as it was.
supercity88
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The group stage was fucking dull. We seemed to always get similar teams, batter the majority and could often rest and rotate for the final two. Last night was good in that it was a tough game, but the club rewarded fans with overpriced tickets and the crowd was therefore full of day trippers and the instagram crowd.
On the one hand you can ask how many "legacy" fans would have bothered anyway, and CL group games were always a bit "meh", on the other you feel disappointed it's become so commercial that fans feel that way.
Another bug bear was the fact City wore that kit! I get the idea behind teaming up with Noel to do something City related and market the club and band together, but don't fucking play in it. For starters, Bonehead is a rag bastard and there's a photo of George Best on the Definitely Maybe album cover, that City shouldn't be fucking re-creating!!! Every man and his dog know the Gallagher's support City. Do some Oasis style tracksuits or bucket hats and leave it at that.
On the one hand you can ask how many "legacy" fans would have bothered anyway, and CL group games were always a bit "meh", on the other you feel disappointed it's become so commercial that fans feel that way.
Another bug bear was the fact City wore that kit! I get the idea behind teaming up with Noel to do something City related and market the club and band together, but don't fucking play in it. For starters, Bonehead is a rag bastard and there's a photo of George Best on the Definitely Maybe album cover, that City shouldn't be fucking re-creating!!! Every man and his dog know the Gallagher's support City. Do some Oasis style tracksuits or bucket hats and leave it at that.
The thing with the whole premiss of the new format is that they want more "big" teams playing each other, but the thing with that is then we will just get more games like last night where they just end up with both teams playing for a draw because neither team wants to lose because they know they'll be able to pick up points against the weaker teams. it just gives a chance for the club to charge an obscene amount for the first game of the "group" stages
carlosthejackal
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W A N K
But us having Inter, PSG and Juve, the latter 2 away, doesn’t feel hugely fair, esp when you look at the fixtures a team like Celtic have ended up with …
Correct. It's fucking bollocks.
Absolutely no bonus of winning the league in the CHAMPIONS League anymore.