President Trump

SWP's back said:
It was Trump that killed the immigration Bill.

Inflation is down and the Fed has started cutting rates.

The economy is strong and the Dow is a record high.
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That might all be true but it’s down to people’s perception of a situation.

Someone in Pennsylvania might not consider a strong Dow as materially impacting their lives.
 
franksinatra said:
And that is why winning the argument, changing the perception is vitally important for the Democrats according to the experts.
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How are you going to do this if people believe "alternative facts"?

This has been a theme for nearly a decade with Trump, and, writ large now given that it's enslaved to him, the GOP as a whole. They lie. And lie and lie and lie and lie. Then they lie about lies. Then they make up a new lie once their previous lie is disproven, and then continue to lie about the old lie, until the old lie becomes a new lie. Rinse and repeat. Or rather, befoul and muddy.

What was the stat? Trump told 38,000 public lies in his four years as President I think?

How does one compete with a a foe with literally no moral center, no accountability for the truth? You can't. You either get down there with them and give up your moral center, or you keep repeating the truth over and over and hope eventually it wins.

I understand politics is perception. But Democrats are playing a football match without a referee, and Trump et al willing to break every conventional rule to win. I'm not sure what else Democrats can do.

I've used this quote before, from The Usual Suspects, about Keyser Soze, a man of incarnate evil: "You just need the will to do what the other guy won't." If you're willing to give up truth to win, and the other guy isn't, you have a pretty good chance of winning. Which is why the election is as close as it is -- and why that itself baffles the vast majority of observers here, who have moral centers.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
How are you going to do this if people believe "alternative facts"?

This has been a theme for nearly a decade with Trump, and, writ large now given that it's enslaved to him, the GOP as a whole. They lie. And lie and lie and lie and lie. Then they lie about lies. Then they make up a new lie once their previous lie is disproven, and then continue to lie about the old lie, until the old lie becomes a new lie. Rinse and repeat. Or rather, befoul and muddy.

How does one compete with a a foe with literally no moral center, no accountability for the truth? You can't. You either get down there with them and give up your moral center, or you keep repeating the truth over and over and hope eventually it wins.

I understand politics is perception. But Democrats are playing a football match without a referee, and Trump et al willing to break every conventional rule to win. I'm not sure what else Democrats can do.

I've used this quote before, from The Usual Suspects, about Keyser Soze, a man of incarnate evil: "You just need the will to do what the other guy won't." If you're willing to give up truth to win, and the other guy isn't, you have a pretty good chance of winning. Which is why the election is as close as it is -- and why it baffles the vast majority of observers here, who have moral centers.
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100% this.

I'm currently working in the US, and it is frightening that normally sane people will happily ignore the facts in front of their faces over politics.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
100% this.

I'm currently working in the US, and it is frightening that normally sane people will happily ignore the facts in front of their faces over politics.
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It's happening here as well.

Cunts like Führage - his cult members believe everything he says.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
How are you going to do this if people believe "alternative facts"?

This has been a theme for nearly a decade with Trump, and, writ large now given that it's enslaved to him, the GOP as a whole. They lie. And lie and lie and lie and lie. Then they lie about lies. Then they make up a new lie once their previous lie is disproven, and then continue to lie about the old lie, until the old lie becomes a new lie. Rinse and repeat. Or rather, befoul and muddy.

What was the stat? Trump told 38,000 public lies in his four years as President I think?

How does one compete with a a foe with literally no moral center, no accountability for the truth? You can't. You either get down there with them and give up your moral center, or you keep repeating the truth over and over and hope eventually it wins.

I understand politics is perception. But Democrats are playing a football match without a referee, and Trump et al willing to break every conventional rule to win. I'm not sure what else Democrats can do.

I've used this quote before, from The Usual Suspects, about Keyser Soze, a man of incarnate evil: "You just need the will to do what the other guy won't." If you're willing to give up truth to win, and the other guy isn't, you have a pretty good chance of winning. Which is why the election is as close as it is -- and why that itself baffles the vast majority of observers here, who have moral centers.
Click to expand...

Cannot disagree with any of that but from the reports I’ve read the Democrats don’t really need to appeal to the Republicans entrenched supporter base just those who are not sure which way to vote, which suggests they have not yet been fully swayed by the lies of Trump/Vance etc.

It’s reported over here that 100k swing voters will decide the election, with the economy and immigration regularly being considered the main issues of the electorate and the areas many think the democrats have not made their case strongly enough.
 
franksinatra said:
That might all be true but it’s down to people’s perception of a situation.

Someone in Pennsylvania might not consider a strong Dow as materially impacting their lives.
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So what you’re saying is people will moan about things that aren’t happening? Got it. But we already knew that on average, Trump voters are less well educated.
 
SWP's back said:
So what you’re saying is people will moan about things that aren’t happening? Got it. But we already knew that on average, Trump voters are less well educated.
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Well it might ‘feel’ it is happening to them. Like I said having a strong Dow is not going to necessarily reassure someone that their job opportunities locally will improve and if they link that to
Immigration, the rhetoric of the Republicans, this might sway their vote in the Republicans favour.

It’s easy to say that is just trump Voters but it seems, from reports, the condition of the economy and immigration are the two central
Issues.

Going back to my original post there is an argument the Democrats are not doing enough to allay those fears or highlight the positives in the economy, which may cost them with the swing voters.
 
""

Watched this last night. Scary in the fact that it was in effect down to a few good moral people who refused to bend under pressure, that we did manage to get Trump out of the WH in 2020
 
if either side could produce a middle of the road centre president im sure theyd get swing voters.

november will be about which side is the least mental.
 
franksinatra said:
Well it might ‘feel’ it is happening to them. Like I said having a strong Dow is not going to necessarily reassure someone that their job opportunities locally will improve and if they link that to
Immigration, the rhetoric of the Republicans, this might sway their vote in the Republicans favour.

It’s easy to say that is just trump Voters but it seems, from reports, the condition of the economy and immigration are the two central
Issues.

Going back to my original post there is an argument the Democrats are not doing enough to allay those fears or highlight the positives in the economy, which may cost them with the swing voters.
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I think your original post HAS already been answered so I don't see a need to go back to it. Maybe my answer didn't appeal but it's still the correct answer.

The reason the economy and immigration are "the two key issues" is because they are the two key issues with the 1/2 GOP who respond to such surveys, whereas Democrats have a wider variety of issues they care about -- including abortion, and the defen(c)se of democracy.

So add 50% of two issues and 50% of, say six issues, and we are going to get, nationally, a result that suggests the two most important things to voters are those two things. But not necessarily to Democrats.

The political strategist at my work doesn't understand the maths of this either, much to my frustration (I do a lot of survey work for a living), so don't worry that you don't.
 
franksinatra said:
Cannot disagree with any of that but from the reports I’ve read the Democrats don’t really need to appeal to the Republicans entrenched supporter base just those who are not sure which way to vote, which suggests they have not yet been fully swayed by the lies of Trump/Vance etc.

It’s reported over here that 100k swing voters will decide the election, with the economy and immigration regularly being considered the main issues of the electorate and the areas many think the democrats have not made their case strongly enough.
Click to expand...
Swing voters aren't necessarily undecided on Trump vs. Harris -- they're undecided on whether they are going to show up to the polls and actually vote. They may be "Never Harris, but I don't like Trump either" or "Never Trump, but I don't know Harris so well" so its about grassroots getting those people to get off their keisters and show up. For those who definitely plan to vote there are almost no undecided "swing" voters.
 
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