Middle East Conflict

We have two fundamentalist regimes going at each other there are geopolitics involved as know doubt Russia and China will be delighted that the US is once again tied up in The Middle East

From my friends in Israel the attacks caused quite a lot of damage but there is a news blackout

This is a mess and I am afraid to say it's all on Biden, he could have restrained the Israelis, other Presidents have notably George Bush (Senior) any fool could have seen what was coming, allowing an extreme RW Israeli Government off the leash never ends well for anyone in particularly Israel! What was a reasonably successful economy is tanking and they are involved with in an unwinnable war, just because some extremist American Jews feel they have right to settle the West Bank!
 
Pelegrinni said:
Gaza also has a border with Egypt. Israel was not in control of that border. Thousands of Palestinians used to cross the border to work in Israel every day before the war. Zero were allowed into Egypt.

The only genocide that's happened so far was in October 7 - every living soul encountered were either murdered or taken away as hostage.

The war will continue as long as people continue to spread disinformation on the internet.
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The war will continue until people come to their senses and come up with a practical solution, this can't go on like this
 
BlueAnorak said:
As the UK anti rocket capability is the best part of zilch (only Sky Sabre/Sea Ceptor)16mi to 28mi range not a lot.
Arrow3 and David's Sling are the weapons required to hit balustic missiles - and Israel is unlikely to help the UK at the moment.
THADD the US equivalent to David's Sling and the successor to Patriot is also an option but it's not got thee ex Atmosphere capability of Arrow3.
The DragonFire laser will be with the UK armed forces in 2027 but that's relatively short range.
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I'd say that the role of the British forces was to provide the brews for the Yanks.
 
Pelegrinni said:
Gaza also has a border with Egypt. Israel was not in control of that border. Thousands of Palestinians used to cross the border to work in Israel every day before the war. Zero were allowed into Egypt.

The only genocide that's happened so far was in October 7 - every living soul encountered were either murdered or taken away as hostage.

The war will continue as long as people continue to spread disinformation on the internet.
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There is the Netanyahu or Satanyahu narrative to fall behind like the western lapdogs and their media outlets. Shout it enough and you’ll indoctrinate the Americans sufficiently and their followers.
 
Ducado said:
The war will continue until people come to their senses and come up with a practical solution, this can't go on like this
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Don’t be absurd, the war will continue so long as city fans post anything against Israeli propaganda on a football forum

116 charges now mate.
 
Kompany Car said:
You mean the hypersonic missiles that aren’t really hypersonic missiles, they are just very high altitude air launched ballistic missiles, a bit like strapping a minuteman 2 to a plane and launching it (for reference a minute man 2 back in the 60s had a speed of around Mach 23).

Whilst the Russians love their showboating around hypersonic missiles in reality they are very low manoeuvrability ballistic missiles which can be hit and have proven to be taken out by the aging Patriot system.

A true hypersonic missile would also have high manoeuvrability making it a much more challenging prospect. The new Mako missile developed for the F-35 and F-22 but also compatible with EFA is a true hypersonic along with the ground/sea launched Dark Eagle.
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Indeed there are many types of hypersonic missiles.

Question; as much of the West have been offloading old tech to Ukraine, do you think Iran get new tech until they absolutely need to?
 
LesBleuMiserable said:
There is the Netanyahu or Satanyahu narrative to fall behind like the western lapdogs and their media outlets. Shout it enough and you’ll indoctrinate the Americans sufficiently and their followers.
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Always going about with innuendos.
Not a single practical solution in sight.
The hatred of the Jews is not about land. If it was, this would have been resolved decades ago through negotiation.
The influence of religious texts on this conflict is what people are not willing to discuss.

Israel has done far more for the average Palestinians than any Arab country. Yet, this is often ignored because of the deep seated hatred of anything Jewish. For example, Palestinian refugees are still treated as second class citizens in many Arab countries while the Arabs in Israel are treated as equal citizens.
 
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Pelegrinni said:
Always going about with innuendos.
Not a single practical solution in sight.
The hatred of the Jews is not about land. If it was, this would have been resolved decades ago through negotiation.
The influence of religious texts on this conflict is what people are not willing to discuss.

Israel has done far more for the average Palestinians than any Arab country. Yet, this is often ignored because of the deep seated hatred of anything Jewish. For example, Palestinian refugees are still treated as second class citizens in many Arab countries while the Arabs in Israel are treated as equal citizens.
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This is all wrong and it's the propaganda you've been fed for decades

Prior to the advent of Zionism, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully and often indistinguishably culturally, apart from their respective religions, side by side across the Ottoman empire and previously in Spain.

As you know full well it was Europeans who were most hostile to the Jewish people over centuries culminating in the Holocaust.

The problems in Palestine are all about land, and resources, as they are pretty much everywhere historically and currently.
 
So where’s this beardy guy in the sky?
Come on lad, where the f*ck are you?

Your worshippers are getting slaughted, the people that prey to you morning, day & night and give their lives to you need your help.

Is it not time to come and seek revenge and help them? Armageddon?

At least give them a sign of hope or flood the earth again

The poor children.
All this shite in the name of religion.
 
robbieh said:
This is all wrong and it's the propaganda you've been fed for decades

Prior to the advent of Zionism, Jews and Arabs lived peacefully and often indistinguishably culturally, apart from their respective religions, side by side across the Ottoman empire and previously in Spain.

As you know full well it was Europeans who were most hostile to the Jewish people over centuries culminating in the Holocaust.

The problems in Palestine are all about land, and resources, as they are pretty much everywhere historically and currently.
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Arabs never allowed the Jews to live peacefully among them for the past 1400 years. That's why Jews were expelled from most Arabian countries. Prior to this period, I agree that they did they did live peacefully among each other.

Israel will be more than willing to trade land for peace. They proved this with the Sinai peninsula agreement with Egypt. They tried to negotiate peace with the Palestinians via the Camp David accord.
If the conflict is about land, why do non-Arabs like Iran invest so much for the destruction of the Jewish state?

Also, the Hamas charter does not include the establishment of a Palestinian state as an objective. However, it does include the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel. Do you think this is because of land?
 
Pelegrinni said:
Arabs never allowed the Jews to live peacefully among them for the past 1400 years. That's why Jews were expelled from most Arabian countries. Prior to this period, I agree that they did they did live peacefully among each other.

Israel will be more than willing to trade land for peace. They proved this with the Sinai peninsula agreement with Egypt. They tried to negotiate peace with the Palestinians via the Camp David accord.
If the conflict is about land, why do non-Arabs like Iran invest so much for the destruction of the Jewish state?

Also, the Hamas charter does not include the establishment of a Palestinian state as an objective. However, it does include the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel. Do you think this is because of land?
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Jordan gave a statement at the UN which is Arab nations are all willing to normalise ties with Israel if Israel only recognises a Palestinian state. Clearly Israel is not willing to recognise a Palestinian state and that's the problem at least in terms of peace with Arab countries and the larger international community.

This however leaves a vacuum of opposition to Israel and that vacuum has come to be occupied by extremists such as Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran has its own ideological goal to eliminate Israel and they're subsequently funding the extremists and this war. But this war is circular, Iran won't disappear and neither will Hamas or Hezbollah and especially not Israel.

Ultimately though Israel is an international state held to international standards. I totally supported Israel's right to defend itself post 7/10 but is Israel helping itself by invading and bombing innocents in Lebanon? What is the end goal other than for Israel to remain at perpetual war whilst at home it continues to slowly wipe out the Palestinians?

It has to stop now but that won't happen because again Israel does not want to recognise its sins but they have to be recognised for there to be peace. Until then the war will continue until somebody stops it or there is nobody left.
 
Seems this is going to go on for some time and will get progressively worse.

I can see from the posts 'supporting' both sides that there is no middle ground (no pun intended), I would think people on the ground think of the other side as sub-human.

Bombing the fuck out of each other isn't going to stop anytime soon and is just fueling the hatred from each side as more & more families will know someone who has been killed maimed etc.

Carpet bomb the entire Middle East with joints might help but, I can just see death and destruction unfortunately.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Ultimately the only solution is for everyone in the middle east to fuck religion off and start seeing each other as people. Not holding my breath.
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I can tell you many uyghurs in xinjiang, especially young boys and girls ,they don't want to be muslim. But hey, guess what? Western countries will accuse you of trying to erase their culture.
 
Pelegrinni said:
Arabs never allowed the Jews to live peacefully among them for the past 1400 years. That's why Jews were expelled from most Arabian countries. Prior to this period, I agree that they did they did live peacefully among each other.
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So what you're saying is that the only time they lived peacefully side by side was around 500 AD. Don't know if this was sarcasm or not because the Arabs were barely out of Medina at this point.

Jews have been living in Iraq, Iran and all over the middle east for 100s of years. The example I gave of Spain being a good example where Jews held high positions in society. Obviously they were both turfed out by Christians.

I grant you Jews were expelled after the creation of the state of Israel but imagine that might have had something to do with Palestinians being forced at gunpoint from their homes.
 
robbieh said:
I grant you Jews were expelled after the creation of the state of Israel but imagine that might have had something to do with Palestinians being forced at gunpoint from their homes.
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That's what it looks like on the surface.
But historical facts paints a completely different picture.
For example, Jews were expelled from Medina around 624AD. Also, we know what happened to Jews in Khaybar (we hear chants of this massacre every Saturday in the streets of London).
These events events happened centuries before the creation of Israel.
 
It’s just so absurdly transparent is what annoys me. The escalation is to help Trump and keep Netanyahu in office and out of prison. The Israeli leadership is awful…as is Hezbollah’s leadership, Hamas’s leadership, Iran’s leadership etc. who are all well up for a fight for their own ideological reasons and all of them - Israel and its foes - claiming to, but clearly in no way, caring about the poor buggers living under them who are the ones getting bombed.

And this conflict is doing nothing but getting resentment and hatred baked in for a good few more generations. While over here you have hawks on one side keen to get in on the action, and tiresome Corbyn types determined to not see the grey areas of the situation and just saying Israel should be immediately abandoned as if that would magically stop everything as opposed to making the eyes of any dubious leader anywhere in the world light up.

All this over a couple of bits of land that in geological terms haven’t even been around that long and won’t stay round much longer still, which they only even want because their imaginary sky beard says it’s more important than other bits of near-identical land.

21st century my arse. This level of boneheaded endless warmongering makes Game of Thrones look like Downton Abbey.
 
Zuriblue said:
It’s just so absurdly transparent is what annoys me. The escalation is to help Trump and keep Netanyahu in office and out of prison. The Israeli leadership is awful…as is Hezbollah’s leadership, Hamas’s leadership, Iran’s leadership etc. who are all well up for a fight for their own ideological reasons and all of them - Israel and its foes - claiming to, but clearly in no way, caring about the poor buggers living under them who are the ones getting bombed.

And this conflict is doing nothing but getting resentment and hatred baked in for a good few more generations. While over here you have hawks on one side keen to get in on the action, and tiresome Corbyn types determined to not see the grey areas of the situation and just saying Israel should be immediately abandoned as if that would magically stop everything as opposed to making the eyes of any dubious leader anywhere in the world light up.

All this over a couple of bits of land that in geological terms haven’t even been around that long and won’t stay round much longer still, which they only even want because their imaginary sky beard says it’s more important than other bits of near-identical land.

21st century my arse. This level of boneheaded endless warmongering makes Game of Thrones look like Downton Abbey.
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Look mate, just tell us which side you are on and venomously defend them please.
 
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