President Trump

DutchSMOKE11 said:


hilarious....
Click to expand...

This is what Trump and MAGA operatives do over and over and over again.

They say something wildly nonsensical, or racist, or sexist, or transphobic, or antisemitic, or Islamophobia, or fascist, or completely at odds with their oath of office, or take actions to those effects…

And then, later, they act like they never said or did it at all, calling anyone pointing out they did a liar, despite there being written/recorded evidence and/or eye witness accounts of them saying and/or doing it. Their supporters believe them without question, even when they may have been present when the MAGA operative said or did the thing being highlighted; their supporters will simply adopt a different reality (or set of facts), and reject any evidence that challenges that alternate reality.

This type of gaslighting is a very well known fascist power move, which the likes of Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, Orban, and others regularly employ. It is designed to not only wear down and demoralise dissenters, by essentially saying “see, I can say whatever I want, no matter how demonstratively false, and there will be no consequences”, but also undermine the very notion of the existence of objective truth.

Once you have claimed the power to lie without consequence, the next step is to destroy truth itself by convincing most people everything and nothing is a lie.
 
SebastianBlue said:
No, I want Putin rotting in The Hague after a long and very public trial.

Assassinating people like Putin or Trump or Netanyahu only usually acts to make the movement behind them more extreme (and radicalise more people to their cause). Their replacement is most often even worse: just ask yourself who would replace Trump if he was assassinated; hint: their surname rhymes with lance, as in drain a very problematic boil).

See nearly every assassination of a dangerous populist political or terrorist leader that has ever taken place in modern history.

It may have worked in some cases before the era of mass communication, but it doesn’t work now, when people in areas that may not have any direct geopolitical involvement with a cause or conflict can be recruited and radicalised. And there is almost no way to slow or suppress information sharing within these groups.

Political violence almost never achieves its goals, and almost always makes a bad situation worse.

Assassinating Trump now would not only likely hand MAGA the election, it would throw the country in to absolute chaos, and that would be bad for everyone.

He needs to lose the election, be rightly found guilty for all of his criminal and treasonous acts, and put in prison.

Will that solve all of the issues America is currently facing or lead to the complete dissolution of MAGA as a movement? No.

But it is the only option that does not make things worse for everyone.
Click to expand...
If assassinating people drew people to the cause, we'd have a two-state solution by now. Assassination worked for Netanyahu.
 
Vic said:
If assassinating people drew people to the cause, we'd have a two-state solution by now. Assassination worked for Netanyahu.
Click to expand...
The assassination of Rabin worked to worsen the situation for most people as even more extremist ideology strengthened within Israel and Palestine, which was among my points.

Assassination has very seldom lead to less extremism and better conditions for most people involved, especially not in modern times.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Mehdi is a skilled operator when it comes to debate. For Palin not to have known this tells you everything you need to know about her.

He absolutely wiped the floor with her.
Click to expand...
Which, to be fair, is not a high bar when it comes to Palin.

My very clever and intelligent three year-old could wipe the floor with her.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
As has already been discussed . . . I suspect the thinking of those red-siders (I'd bet who are also large donors and cultists) is if it pays off, great; if not, the short odds can be used to bolster the case that the election was "stolen". Seems pretty obvious the market's being gamed in a way polls can't be -- especially when Trump doesn't hold the Presidential reins to protest the outcome.

I 100% guarantee if Trump loses, he'll bring up "the odds" as clear "evidence" that the election was "fixed."
Click to expand...
Agree. You can also hedge these bets by betting against the dollar and us treasuries in the weeks after the election.

I can easily see Musk putting 10s of millions at risk and with hedging you could put 100m on one side of the betting books.
 
WARNING: LONG BUT INFORMATIVE..

1730230957497.png

Pretty cool how we swung from "groceries cost too much" to "we must crash the economy at all cost."

So Elon acknowledges the plan is to crash the economy and markets so they can rebuild society in MAGA’s image. I don’t think most Trump voters were in on that plan!

You don't understand their motivation to crash the economy do you?

Answer: They want a White Christian Only Neo Nazi MAGA homeland with zero minorities or others.

They know by now there's no way to deport 250 million people who don't like them. But what they do know is people like to upgrade lives, not downgrade and definitely not live in a shithole.. so they want to make America a shithole where everyone not their kind voluntarily leaves for better prospects if they make things terrible enough for everyone else.

Even the Nazi's didn't stop Jews from leaving at first.. they just wanted them out. However the ones that still don't leave.. well then you're talking about the final solution to the unwanted question.

Remake the country in the MAGA image should tell you everything.. they don't want a better economy.. they want to destroy it.



We are truly living in different realities with some of our fellow citizens.. where crashing the economy and making everyone poorer is super desirable for 70+ million.
 
I just had a massive row with my ex who told me she thinks the orange **** is great! We get on but things won’t be the same again. It’s easy to see how Nazi Germany started. From what she told me she is getting a lot of stupid shit off social media.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Trump was completely unprepared for winning the election—there are entire books about how much of a scramble it was just to get the bare minimum personal in place when he was inaugurated. He ran a very lean staff for his entire term relative to previous administrations, with record levels of turnover and, by all accounts, infighting. And he still had large amounts of opposition to much of his policy aspirations and desired actions, even within his own party and administration. Over the course of those four years, he was not able to do a lot of what he wanted largely due to the internal opposition within the Republican Party, the federal government system, and, later, a Democratically lead House.

Even so, he still was able to lay the ground work for the dissolution of democratic institutions. He has created a far-right controlled Supreme Court which is stripping away women’s rights, rendering federal agencies tasked with regulating the environment, economy, and social welfare toothless, has essentially anointed anyone holding the office of President as the American King through a ludicrously ambiguous decision on Presidential Immunity, have essentially made the criminalisation of homeless people the law of the land, continues to gut voting rights, and will likely go after LGBTQ+ rights after the election. He undermined (in some cases eviscerated) several federal agencies and sold the regulation carried out by others to the highest bidder. He helped to create the immigration crisis the US faces right now, along with the insane, counterproductive policies of Republicans, even going so far as to recently kill a bipartisan bill that Republicans and Democrats negotiated for months and had the votes to pass so that immigration could continue to be an issue he could campaign on (that was while he wasn’t even president). He undermined US leadership of NATO and support of Ukraine, which partially emboldened Putin to mount a full invasion (and since sabre-rattle about doing so in other former Soviet-controlled regions) and encouraged Xi to become more aggressive with China’s efforts to take Hong Kong, Taiwan, and expand their claims to the South China Sea and surrounds. He mismanaged the pandemic leading to thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of excess deaths; there are still debates as to whether it was—at least initially—an intentional mismanagement. He further undermined public faith in the integrity of the office of the Presidency, even extending to Congress (not that the public had much faith in that body to begin with), and introduced unprecedented levels of corruption, all the while advocating, agitating, acting to be more of a dictator. He was able to almost destroy the Department of Education (which has long been a goal of the far-right and ultra-conservative Republicans); it has famously taken a massive effort to try to reconstitute it under Biden. He empowered Christian and White nationalists at both the federal and state level through both rhetoric, funding, and political appointments. He and his cronies embedded dysfunction, corruption, and distrust in to the election system, which itself is perhaps one of the most damaging, dangerous, and long lasting accomplishments. He worked to undermine public confidence in the free press, in direct rhetoric calling the media the “enemy of the people”, policy (the FCC was an absolute shambles under him and the SC continues to chip away at press freedoms), and by constantly and egregiously spreading dis- and misinformation in an official capacity. His aim was the same as Putin’s: not to simply undermine the truth, but to destroy the very concept that “truth” existed.

And, arguably the most sinister of his first term efforts, he managed to begin the process of purging the ranks of people that he deemed adversarial and/or disloyal to him—many of his previously most “trusted” associates were a part of that purge. Not disloyal to the nation or the constitution: disloyal to him and his MAGA apparatus. He has continued and accelerated that to the point that now he essentially has complete control over the Republican Party, right down to the RNC and officially related entities. He has put his family members in top level leadership roles and has completely focused all campaign efforts on his presidential bid, literally leaving senate, house, state, county, and local campaign coordination to volunteer groups. His campaign is not even allowing non-Trump related political signs or other campaign materials at his various regional campaign headquarters. The Republican party was divided and in civil war in his first term; MAGA was still only a part of the right- and far-right-wing environment when he took office. Now the Republican Party, for all intents and purposes, is the MAGA party. It is unified and behind Trump, with many ultra conservative (or straight up far-right) entities spending literally millions (perhaps billions when all is said and done) to make sure they have a comprehensive plan and carefully selected “loyal” people to fill every role if he wins this time. They plan to further purge the federal civil service’s ranks to ensure no opposition to his every whim (or the whims of those enriching him, whether foreign or domestic) exists in his second term. And that is just one of a bevy of actions and policies his camp plans to enact as soon as he takes the oath.

The only thing that might have a chance of slowing him down would be an opposition or split Congress. But if he gets both the House and Senate, he would control all branches of government.

And I want to be clear: when I say “Trump” or “he”, I mean him and the vast network of far-right, ultra-conservative, Christian/White nationalist (I group them together because there is A LOT of overlap), corporate, and foreign actors behind him. He is not a lone figure, bending America to his will, by any means. But he is very much a reflection and embodiment of all the bad actors that want to see him back in power.

He will continue to use the “slow ramp” tactics of incrementally increasing the darkness and intensity of his speech and proposed actions/policies until, like Hitler, his supporters don’t even flinch when he announces he will round up all “illegal immigrants” and put them in camps for mass deportation. Or begin a programme of mass arrests of dissenters and political opposition. Or pass laws returning women’s rights back to the 1700s. Or institute policies (and agitate for Supreme Court decisions) to abolish the first amendment, installing Evangelical Christianity as the official religion of the US and allowing him to have unchecked powers over the media.



See above. He managed to lay the ground work in his first, largely disjointed term. His second term will be very different. His Supreme Court’s truly catastrophic Presidential Immunity ruling will empower him to far more, far more quickly. And his term will likely not end at the constitutionally-mandated 4 years (8 years in total). Do you really think he will just leave at the end?

I would clarify, as well, that my comparison is of Trump now to Hitler prior to his rise to absolute power, which occurred in the mid-1930s. Trump obviously has not become a “fuhrer” type figure yet. But “yet” is the operative word. People tend to focus on Hitler at the height of his power, and later his demise, without really studying exactly how he got there.

And if you do, you’ll see many similarities in the track and trajectory between Trump and Hitler. And in the rhetoric, behaviour, and outcomes.

It’s also important to point out that Hitler’s (and the Nazi party’s) popular vote share in the last free and fair elections in 1932 were 37% in July and 33% in November, so he barely had a third of the voting population’s support. And even in the election in 1933, after his Nazi forces raged a campaign of intimidation and terror (even acting as poll “monitors”), and shortly after they burned down the Reichstag, he only got 44% of the popular vote. He didn’t need 100% support, he just needed enough to gain power and access to the institutions and resources of government. Then he could work to demolish those institutions and replace them with ones that served his aims without question or hesitance.

And guess what anachronistic system is employed for presidential elections in America that can enable someone to win the office without winning the popular vote (something Trump exploited in the 2016 election, where he got just 46% of the popular vote to Clinton’s 48%)?

As I have said in previous posts, the time to highlight a dangerous bad actor’s similarities to Hitler (and his rise) is not after he has assumed absolute power. The time, when there are legitimate parallels, is well before that.
Click to expand...
So many of the bad actors are in place now in local election set ups, in schools, in federal agencies, in the courts, in congress and so on. The great backstop was supposed to be SCOTUS using the constitution to prevent the executive overreaching their authority. Of course SCOTUS is now hopelessly corrupted and that is why Trump would be a total disaster.
 
blue for life said:
I just had a massive row with my ex who told me she thinks the orange **** is great! We get on but things won’t be the same again. It’s easy to see how Nazi Germany started. From what she told me she is getting a lot of stupid shit off social media.
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and ghost her.

Once she's MAGA.. she's going to constantly bother you and blame you with stuff like.. "How the fuck could you be watching City and eating a chippy when the country is going down the drain.. blah blah blah"

There's no coming back to sane humanity from the MAGA virus.
 
blue for life said:
I just had a massive row with my ex who told me she thinks the orange **** is great! We get on but things won’t be the same again. It’s easy to see how Nazi Germany started. From what she told me she is getting a lot of stupid shit off social media.
Click to expand...
Is she one of these people who take life as fact, and her own 'facts', from social media only?
 
Blue_Lightsaber said:
Do yourself a favor and ghost her.

Once she's MAGA.. she's going to constantly bother you and blame you with stuff like.. "How the fuck could you be watching City and eating a chippy when the country is going down the drain.. blah blah blah"

There's no coming back to sane humanity from the MAGA virus.
Click to expand...
Spot on. It was pointless me reacting really. I should have just laughed. Fortunately she lives in the UK so can’t vote in a US election. Bizarrely voted Green in our election. Oh and a born again Christian!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top