US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

[mrbelfry]

I get what Dax and a few others are trying to rationalise as how it’s always been, and you are at it now as well, but I have to say looking on as a spectator I totally get what Foggy is saying.

Never mind the individual circumstances personal to himself and his family. The fact is there was nothing normal about Trumps campaign since losing in 2020.
At least not to my eyes and ears. If that is normal now then basically anything goes. Win at all costs. Might is right. Incite hatred and possible violence towards minorities or anyone who threatens to expose lies or is not on the same page as you.
He was very careful at times with the language he used but although it was perhaps not legally probable, the subliminal message was far from obscure.

The fact that he won and there will be a peaceful transition of power is perhaps a blessing in the short term for ordinary America, but he has a long way to go to convince me that his presidency will only pursue self interest and the electorate he convinced to vote for him are not a major priority to him or more worryingly, whatever is pulling the strings behind him.

I am fully aware also that this is only my opinion looking very much from the outside in and I don’t have a great feel for opinion on the ground in America apart from what I get from in here. So take what you want out of that.
But if this is the feel or opinion on the ground in America, that this is alright, that you agree with the drivel and hate he has spewed knowing truly that the bulk of it is malicious nonsense, then I say to myself, I’ll leave you to it. It’s not a culture I would hold up as a role model to the world.

I am absolutely not trying to legitimise Trump I'm also not on the ground in America. My opinion of Trump is probably closely aligned with Foggy's
. I'm also not prepared to write off the whole of America precisely because there are people like Foggy living in it. Not every American is saying it's all right and neither is every person who voted Republican a Nazi fascist.

The only point I was perhaps clumsily making is that dismissing every Trump voter as an uneducated, racist, misogynist plays right into Trumps hands.

Who are you going to follow and believe? The person who says you're too stupid to understand the nuances of economics because you haven't been to college and you're ruining america because you hate black people and you hate women or the person who says you're a patriot? You love America! Let's make it great again!

Stop telling people they are the problem because they won't come to some sudden realisation that it is them they'll just follow the guy that says it ain't you it's them.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

not when the system throws up a Corbyn - the tribal loyalties melt away faced with a wrong 'un - very odd it didn't happen in the US.

That what I’m trying to establish.
Is this the new normal.

 

[mackenzie]

I've just watched a YouTube compilation of USA Tik Tok people ranting against the Election result. I swear to God they are all fucking insane.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I am absolutely not trying to legitimise Trump I'm also not on the ground in America. My opinion of Trump is probably closely aligned with Foggy's
. I'm also not prepared to write off the whole of America precisely because there are people like Foggy living in it. Not every American is saying it's all right and neither is every person who voted Republican a Nazi fascist.

The only point I was perhaps clumsily making is that dismissing every Trump voter as an uneducated, racist, misogynist plays right into Trumps hands.

Who are you going to follow and believe? The person who says you're too stupid to understand the nuances of economics because you haven't been to college and you're ruining america because you hate black people and you hate women or the person who says you're a patriot? You love America! Let's make it great again!

Stop telling people they are the problem because they won't come to some sudden realisation that it is them they'll just follow the guy that says it ain't you it's them.

I get that and when I said you are now doing it that is not what I was referring to. Not the legitimising of Trump, but rather the inference that it had always been so and that there was nothing new about the tactics employed in this campaign.

Yes. Perhaps the Dems should perhaps have taken note of what you are saying, but trying to rationalise Trumps tactics is a dangerous game in my book.

 

[Frank the Yank]

Is it though? She underperformed Kathy Hochul by 10 points.

If anything, this just confirms what was painfully obvious to anyone who wasn't a true believer... Kamala Harris was a bad candidate who was foisted upon her party too late in the game.

So she lost

The Democrats have to bearvmost of the burden here. Harris was the quintessential DEI hire. That’s what Biden wanted and he picked her.

The circumstances which lead to being the candidate is 100 % the Democrats fault.

Their message is 100 % their fault. Harris didn’t even have the guts to say if she was for or against Prop 36 in California.

 

[Frank the Yank]

Is it though? She underperformed Kathy Hochul by 10 points.

If anything, this just confirms what was painfully obvious to anyone who wasn't a true believer... Kamala Harris was a bad candidate who was foisted upon her party too late in the game.

So she lost

I cannot imagine anyone underperforming a total incompetent hack like Hochul…

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Well, once again - recalling I said at the time Biden should have announced he was a one term President when he won and failing that after the midterms — who should the Democrats have run that could beat Trump assuming any Democrat would get tarred with Biden’s economic “sins” and assuming no one was cretinous enough to get down in the mud with him?

I realiz(s)e it’s hypothetical but I’ve asked this several times and no one has come up with a useful answer that I recall.

 

[Frank the Yank]

This man needs to resign.

Not a chance. He is another shameless hack and will cling to power as long as he can.

 

[Frank the Yank]

Well, once again - recalling I said at the time Biden should have announced he was a one term President when he won and failing that after the midterms — who should the Democrats have run that could beat Trump assuming any Democrat would get tarred with Biden’s economic “sins” and assuming no one was cretinous enough to get down in the mud with him?

I realiz(s)e it’s hypothetical but I’ve asked this several times and no one has come up with a useful answer that I recall.

If Biden bowed out after one term, then the Democrats probably would have had a much stronger candidate. They definitely would have had a better candidate if they were to tell the far left to fuck off.

Al least its candidate would have been somewhat battle tested. Harris was a lousy candidate.

 

[bluejon]

Well, once again - recalling I said at the time Biden should have announced he was a one term President when he won and failing that after the midterms — who should the Democrats have run that could beat Trump assuming any Democrat would get tarred with Biden’s economic “sins” and assuming no one was cretinous enough to get down in the mud with him?

I realiz(s)e it’s hypothetical but I’ve asked this several times and no one has come up with a useful answer that I recall.

how about jon ossoff?

 

[meltonblue]

Cuz I have a kid calling me at 5:30 am from her college dorm hysterical because some fuck banged on her door saying “Trump won you dyke.”

That’s what it’s about.

Guess that’s just his truth eh?

That is so depressing to read and I feel incredibly sorry for your daughter and for you. I find that one of the most worrying aspects in terms of how much we’ve allowed the current division and rhetoric to get into the next generation already. I’ve got three kids in education at different levels and they’ve experienced similar.

Your daughter’s at college, my son is a similar age. They shouldn’t be worrying about politics, at least to the point of creating division, at their age, they should be having fun and meeting people and understanding them and getting to know them without prejudice.

I have long thought we’re going to be the first generation in a long time to pass down a worse legacy to the next than we inherited (well, it’s between mine and my parents generation) and that depresses me more than anything.

 

[mrbelfry]

I get that and when I said you are now doing it that is not what I was referring to. Not the legitimising of Trump, but rather the inference that it had always been so and that there was nothing new about the tactics employed in this campaign.

Yes. Perhaps the Dems should perhaps have taken note of what you are saying, but trying to rationalise Trumps tactics is a dangerous game in my book.

You can rationalise without normalising.

 

[bluethrunthru]

looks like The Chicks will have to go back out on tour

 

[Dax777]

Maybe Dax will get a tax cut out of it though.

I won't treat your personal story with the indifference and derision with which you've treated mine in the past.

I am disappointed some asshole did that to your daughter. I deeply dislike people who treat poorly simply because you disagree with them.

On these political chats, I receive a disproportionate amount of the abuse for simply disagreeing.

Thus, I empathize with your daughter and wish her the best. And hope she finds safe ways to deal with these bullies.

I’d say you are most probably correct.

But, do you think Trump is a good candidate. Bearing in mind he won, the obvious answer is yes.
You voted for him yourself. Was it GOP policy thst you endorse, was it Trump himself rather than Harris.

What sold it to you.

I'm not sure Trump is a good candidate. I had 2 opportunities to vote for him prior and chose not to.

Yes, it is true that I don't like leftist policies. But I generally tend to fight those locally where it most affects me personally.

But, for what it's worth, I preferred his administration to that of the current regime. I liked the reduction in illegal immigration, the good economy, low gas prices etc. Many have argued these weren't his doing, just a lucky idiot to be around when it occurred.

I liked his foreign policy World View. Which for better or worse can be summarized as let's make deals not war.

So even though I didn't vote for him the prior 2 times I actually did prefer the outcomes during his administration.

But as importantly, I specifically have an antipathy towards people who try to stop their political opposition anywhere other than the ballot box.

in 2019ish back when Foggy was more cordial, he'd often point out how terrible of a person Trump was, and i'd point out that if he was as terrible as Foggy believed, surely the voters will note it and vote him out. But, somehow the anti-Trump brigade never seemed to have enough faith in the electorate to vote who they clearly saw as a horrific President.

They'd rather he was impeached on some trumped up charges or jailed for failing to declare he paid Stormy Daniels.

I personally would rather put my faith in the hands of the American electorate.So As I condemned the riots of January 6th and his boorish behavior post the 2020 election, I equally condemn the lawfare and attempts to imprison or bankrupt him. I have seen that before in a Country far far away where Democracy often used to struggle.

But if you really want to know why I voted for him... It's quite simple. I voted for him because they tried to kill him and those who disagreed with him rejoiced.

Not just here... Everywhere. I found the giddiness about his close call with death repulsive. I found the memory-holing of the event despicable.

Id rather stand with him, than with those who felt giddy about him being nearly killed and wished he was, simply because he wanted to be President again.


That's why I voted for him. Openly so.


And if I might add, I'll never regret it.

 

[Kamaro011]

I won't treat your personal story with the indifference and derision with which you've treated mine in the past.

I am disappointed some asshole did that to your daughter. I deeply dislike people who treat poorly simply because you disagree with them.

On these political chats, I receive a disproportionate amount of the abuse for simply disagreeing.

Thus, I empathize with your daughter and wish her the best. And hope she finds safe ways to deal with these bullies.


I'm not sure Trump is a good candidate. I had 2 opportunities to vote for him proor and chose not to.

Yes, it is true that I don't like leftist policies. But I generally tend to fight those locally where it most affects me personally.

But, for what it's worth, I preferred his administration to that of the current regime. I liked the reduction in illegal immigration, the good economy, low gas prices etc. Many have argued these weren't his doing, just a lucky idiot to be around when it occurred.

I liked his foreign policy World View. Which for better or worse can be summarized as let's make deals not war.

So even though I didn't vote for him the prior 2 times I actually did prefer the outcomes during his administration.

But as importantly, I specifically have an antipathy towards people who try to stop their political opposition anywhere other than the ballot box.

in 2019ish back when Foggy was more cordial, he'd often point out how terrible of a person Trump was, and i'd point out that if he was as terrible as Foggy believed, surely the voters will note it and vote him out. But, somehow the anti-Trump brigade never seemed to have enough faith in the electorate to vote who they clearly saw as a horrific President.

They'd rather he was impeached on some trumped up charges or jailed for failing to declare he paid Stormy Daniels.

I personally would rather put my faith in the hands of the American electorate.So As I condemned the riots of January 6th and his boorish behavior post the 2020 election, I equally condemn the lawfare and attempts to imprison or bankrupt him. I have seen that before in a Country far far away where Democracy often used to struggle.

But if you really want to know why I voted for him... It's quite simple. I voted for him because they tried to kill him and those who disagreed with him rejoiced.

Not just here... Everywhere. I found the giddiness about his close call with death repulsive. I found the memory-holing of the event despicable.

Id rather stand with him, than with those who felt giddy about him being nearly killed and wished he was, simply because he wanted to be President again.


That's why I voted for him. Openly so.


And if I might add, I'll never regret it.

Eventhough i hate Trump, but wishing him death is not going to solve anything.

In fact it will be much worse especially if he did get assasinated.

I believe that will be enough to cause another civil war and making everything much worse.

 

[meltonblue]

I won't treat your personal story with the indifference and derision with which you've treated mine in the past.

I am disappointed some asshole did that to your daughter. I deeply dislike people who treat poorly simply because you disagree with them.

On these political chats, I receive a disproportionate amount of the abuse for simply disagreeing.

Thus, I empathize with your daughter and wish her the best. And hope she finds safe ways to deal with these bullies.


I'm not sure Trump is a good candidate. I had 2 opportunities to vote for him proor and chose not to.

Yes, it is true that I don't like leftist policies. But I generally tend to fight those locally where it most affects me personally.

But, for what it's worth, I preferred his administration to that of the current regime. I liked the reduction in illegal immigration, the good economy, low gas prices etc. Many have argued these weren't his doing, just a lucky idiot to be around when it occurred.

I liked his foreign policy World View. Which for better or worse can be summarized as let's make deals not war.

So even though I didn't vote for him the prior 2 times I actually did prefer the outcomes during his administration.

But as importantly, I specifically have an antipathy towards people who try to stop their political opposition anywhere other than the ballot box.

in 2019ish back when Foggy was more cordial, he'd often point out how terrible of a person Trump was, and i'd point out that if he was as terrible as Foggy believed, surely the voters will note it and vote him out. But, somehow the anti-Trump brigade never seemed to have enough faith in the electorate to vote who they clearly saw as a horrific President.

They'd rather he was impeached on some trumped up charges or jailed for failing to declare he paid Stormy Daniels.

I personally would rather put my faith in the hands of the American electorate.So As I condemned the riots of January 6th and his boorish behavior post the 2020 election, I equally condemn the lawfare and attempts to imprison or bankrupt him. I have seen that before in a Country far far away where Democracy often used to struggle.

But if you really want to know why I voted for him... It's quite simple. I voted for him because they tried to kill him and those who disagreed with him rejoiced.

Not just here... Everywhere. I found the giddiness about his close call with death repulsive. I found the memory-holing of the event despicable.

Id rather stand him, than with those who felt giddy about him being killed simply because he wants to be President.


That's why I voted for him. Openly so.

I find that quite a worrying thought process tbh. You’re saying you would have voted or did do for a candidate on the basis of other people’s actions (or even thoughts about them) over the individuals actions themselves.

Each to their own but we’re really fucked if everyone thought that way.

 

[Alvin-blue-qhd]

I won't treat your personal story with the indifference and derision with which you've treated mine in the past.

I am disappointed some asshole did that to your daughter. I deeply dislike people who treat poorly simply because you disagree with them.

On these political chats, I receive a disproportionate amount of the abuse for simply disagreeing.

Thus, I empathize with your daughter and wish her the best. And hope she finds safe ways to deal with these bullies.


I'm not sure Trump is a good candidate. I had 2 opportunities to vote for him proor and chose not to.

Yes, it is true that I don't like leftist policies. But I generally tend to fight those locally where it most affects me personally.

But, for what it's worth, I preferred his administration to that of the current regime. I liked the reduction in illegal immigration, the good economy, low gas prices etc. Many have argued these weren't his doing, just a lucky idiot to be around when it occurred.

I liked his foreign policy World View. Which for better or worse can be summarized as let's make deals not war.

So even though I didn't vote for him the prior 2 times I actually did prefer the outcomes during his administration.

But as importantly, I specifically have an antipathy towards people who try to stop their political opposition anywhere other than the ballot box.

in 2019ish back when Foggy was more cordial, he'd often point out how terrible of a person Trump was, and i'd point out that if he was as terrible as Foggy believed, surely the voters will note it and vote him out. But, somehow the anti-Trump brigade never seemed to have enough faith in the electorate to vote who they clearly saw as a horrific President.

They'd rather he was impeached on some trumped up charges or jailed for failing to declare he paid Stormy Daniels.

I personally would rather put my faith in the hands of the American electorate.So As I condemned the riots of January 6th and his boorish behavior post the 2020 election, I equally condemn the lawfare and attempts to imprison or bankrupt him. I have seen that before in a Country far far away where Democracy often used to struggle.

But if you really want to know why I voted for him... It's quite simple. I voted for him because they tried to kill him and those who disagreed with him rejoiced.

Not just here... Everywhere. I found the giddiness about his close call with death repulsive. I found the memory-holing of the event despicable.

Id rather stand with him, than with those who felt giddy about him being nearly killed and wished he was, simply because he wanted to be President again.


That's why I voted for him. Openly so.


And if I might add, I'll never regret it.

Congratulations!
(If I were American, I would make the same choice)

 

[Dax777]

I find that quite a worrying thought process tbh. You’re saying you would have voted or did do for a candidate on the basis of other people’s actions (or even thoughts about them) over the individuals actions themselves.

Each to their own but we’re really fucked if everyone thought that way.

Yes! Again, I already said I preferred his 4 years to Biden's. But I generally tend to protest vote the Presidential elections.

Other than Obama, I've generally 3rd party voted. Greens when I was younger, Libertarian in my older age.
But now I can add Trump to my list of major candidates I've voted for. And I did so happily.

 

[meltonblue]

Yes! Again, I already said I preferred his 4 years to Biden's. But I generally tend to protest vote the Presidential elections.

Other than Obama, I've generally 3rd party voted. Greens when I was younger, Libertarian in my older age.
But now I can add Trump to my list of major candidates I've voted for. And I did so happily.

Which is fine. Him having assassination attempts as a reason for doing it isn’t one I’d agree with.

 

[BTH]

Congratulations!
(If I were American, I would make the same choice)

What is it about the racist, misogynistic, crooked manchild that you admire so much?