Rock Evolution – The History of Rock & Roll - 1985 - (page 203)

[Kippaxpete]

I'm with you on this Kippax, but it's @mancity111 's choice as it's his pick (unless he cannily wants to let you have this so he can get this and another into the playlist??)

Apologies threespires. Having just returned from Lisbon in a state of illness/alcohol induced exhaustion, I wasn't thinking straight and simply posted the link to demonstrate my appreciation of the great man.

 

[Kippaxpete]

Apologies Kippax and TS the original and the best with the touch of a Jimmy Mundy arrangement gives it the nod for me although Mr Drums version is a cracker and I would be surprised if he doesn't feature in the Jazz content of this thread at least on occasion.

No, it's me who should apologise mancity111! Reference to my response to threeshires should explain. See above.

 

[Resurrection Joe...]

As someone has rightly namechecked the film ' Whiplash' which was fantastic...lets talk Jazz drummers....
I am not going to list a fav track here, and lets face it, these 50/60s cats were partially responsible for the horrors of the 20 minute drum solos which we indulged later on....Led Zep / Mac / Rush etc...Im thinking all these 70s rock drummers thought they were...Buddy Rich, or Gene Krupa, certainly some later drumming giants , Baker, Watts were influenced.
Off the top of my head, Im hoping that someone can pick a track which involves a litte showcase by...Rich, Krupa, Art Blakey, Max Roach...etc...they need acknowledement on the list...although they possibly appear on there anyway, !

 

[threespires]

As someone has rightly namechecked the film ' Whiplash' which was fantastic...lets talk Jazz drummers....
I am not going to list a fav track here, and lets face it, these 50/60s cats were partially responsible for the horrors of the 20 minute drum solos which we indulged later on....Led Zep / Mac / Rush etc...Im thinking all these 70s rock drummers thought they were...Buddy Rich, or Gene Krupa, certainly some later drumming giants , Baker, Watts were influenced.
Off the top of my head, Im hoping that someone can pick a track which involves a litte showcase by...Rich, Krupa, Art Blakey, Max Roach...etc...they need acknowledement on the list...although they possibly appear on there anyway, !

We've already got something from Moanin' in the starter playlist but there's always room for more.

Can't wait till we get to discuss Ginger Baker later on, I'm really hoping someone on here will have met him and have some entertainingly traumatic tale to tell!

Edit: @Resurrection Joe... how about something from the sessions Krupa and Rich did together, maybe Gene's Blues ?

 

[Resurrection Joe...]

We've already got something from Moanin' in the starter playlist but there's always room for more.

Can't wait till we get to discuss Ginger Baker later on, I'm really hoping someone on here will have met him and have some entertainingly traumatic tale to tell!

Edit: @Resurrection Joe... how about something from the sessions Krupa and Rich did together, maybe Gene's Blues ?

Definately Gene's Blues...It seems strange now, that a few of these guys achieved a kind of celebrity status of their own...first i ever heard of Rich was probably on Parkinson or some 7ts chat show.....
I forgot Moanin'!
Ginger Baker possibly warrants a sub section of his own...contrary to popular opinion I actually warmed to him in that documentary....
How about Benny Goodman Band with Gene KRUPA...'Sing, sing, sing'

 

[mancity111]

No, it's me who should apologise mancity111! Reference to my response to threeshires should explain. See above.

No Kippax state you were in or not I should apologize to you and TS , I was too cryptic once again and wasted TS 's time needlessly on two fronts , as is role is tough enough without off the cuff comments from me that would lead him to think I wanted a version of Feeling Good from John Dankworth to be added to a list that would not qualify by year.

I feel good when I listen to Feeling Good , even like the version by Traffic extended to 9 minutes as only Steve , Jim and Dave etc could muster and keep it tight with few loose ends and repetition for the sake of it.

Then not to identify the version of Feather Merchant I wanted is an insult to fans of Stan Getz and my apologies for that to both you and TS but I only have the Counts version on vinyl and I as I get older and less digital savvy I am pleased to still have a working record player in my household.

 

[mancity111]

Absolutely no apologies required MC, a great pick either way.

@Kippaxpete do you want to pick something else?

Absolutely required TS its hard enough to keep on top of posters least of all cryptic buffoons like me.

I wasted your time and which meant needless posts from you to clarify on two occasions and appreciate your patience for FOC's like me to make the playlist as exhaustive and salmagundis as possible.

 

[RobMCFC]

Absolutely required TS its hard enough to keep on top of posters least of all cryptic buffoons like me.

I wasted your time and which meant needless posts from you to clarify on two occasions and appreciate your patience for FOC's like me to make the playlist as exhaustive and salmagundis as possible.

It's just great that people are getting really involved in this thread. In addition to setting the scene for the rock era that we will discuss from 1960 onwards, part of the idea of these introductory rounds was to work out any issues with the format, so a few faux-pas is to be expected. So no apologies are necessary.

For any thread that works on the idea of contributing to a playlist, I think that people should say whatever they want and then finish with the song name - artist name on a separate line.

I've just listened to "St. Louis Blues". What a fantastic tune. I'm familiar with the name and the main section but it was just one of those songs where I'd never connected the two in my head. This is a real education.

 

[threespires]

Absolutely required TS its hard enough to keep on top of posters least of all cryptic buffoons like me.

I wasted your time and which meant needless posts from you to clarify on two occasions and appreciate your patience for FOC's like me to make the playlist as exhaustive and salmagundis as possible.

How can you be apologising when you've just taught me the word salmagundis ?

 

[Resurrection Joe...]

Ok...lets face it...can't discuss the golden era of the Jazz greats, without mentioning ....heroin...Why did so many feel the need...Chet, Bird, Miles, 'trane...in fact pretty much all of Miles 'kind of Blue' combo...Was it pressure of gigging? did it inspire creativily...'No Junk, No soul?...

 

[mancity111]

How can you be apologising when you've just taught me the word salmagundis ?

Some attestation that I am a FOC.

My mother went to an all girls Catholic School but wasn't Catholic by any stretch , so when she was somewhat refractory which was often she had to use such words in a sentence until she got the Nuns imprimatur.

She introduced me to the Oscar Peterson Trio ( Night Train ) , I was very ambivalent at best to it at first who wouldn't as a primary school aged student but now I know where she was coming from , took me almost 50 years to come over to the dark side but better late than never as they say.

Loved your intro TS not bad for someone who I assume Jazz is not their first love nor will it be their last be it assisted by the internet or otherwise in part.

 

[mancity111]

Ok...lets face it...can't discuss the golden era of the Jazz greats, without mentioning ....heroin...Why did so many feel the need...Chet, Bird, Miles, 'trane...in fact pretty much all of Miles 'kind of Blue' combo...Was it pressure of gigging? did it inspire creativily...'No Junk, No soul?...

I would have loved Dick Cavett to ask John Lennon the same question but I guess both figured one of Nixon's men would be watching.

Blues , pop , rock , you name it genre of music , sex and drugs of all sorts go together like consuming a neapolitan on a very hot day.

 

[Kippaxpete]

Some attestation that I am a FOC.

My mother went to an all girls Catholic School but wasn't Catholic by any stretch , so when she was somewhat refractory which was often she had to use such words in a sentence until she got the Nuns imprimatur.

She introduced me to the Oscar Peterson Trio ( Night Train ) , I was very ambivalent at best to it at first who wouldn't as a primary school aged student but now I know where she was coming from , took me almost 50 years to come over to the dark side but better late than never as they say.

Loved your intro TS not bad for someone who I assume Jazz is not their first love nor will it be their last be it assisted by the internet or otherwise in part.

I'm impressed mancity111! 'Attestation', 'refractory', 'imprimatur'. You've clearly inherited your mother's love of the English lexicon. Intelligent, articulate and eloquent comments on this site can be few and far between! More power to your elbow my friend.

 

[RobMCFC]

Finally, I can get a nomination on the board (as I feel I nicked Gershwin from Sadds). I stumbled across this in my readings, had a listen and it sounds great.

EDIT: then added the Monk tune

"Un Poco Loco" - Bud Powell
"Round Midnight" - Thelonious Monk

 

[mancity111]

I'm impressed mancity111! 'Attestation', 'refractory', 'imprimatur'. You've clearly inherited your mother's love of the English lexicon. Intelligent, articulate and eloquent comments on this site can be few and far between! More power to your elbow my friend.

You are more than munificent in your praise Kippax , I pale into insignificance when compared to many posters on this forum including your good self when it comes to the English language but I thank you dearly for your kind words.

Given that mathematics and some of its derivatives were disciplines that I had and still do have some grasp over , I am in awe of those that have mastered the language to the degree that some I know throughout my travels have attained or were blessed with from the womb as they say.

I can also say the same when it comes to music and next to having children and good health is the greatest creation mankind IMOO has given to the masses.

 

[threespires]

Ok...lets face it...can't discuss the golden era of the Jazz greats, without mentioning ....heroin...Why did so many feel the need...Chet, Bird, Miles, 'trane...in fact pretty much all of Miles 'kind of Blue' combo...Was it pressure of gigging? did it inspire creativily...'No Junk, No soul?...

Blimey, yes where to start on this. It's such a big thing that I think there's phd's written on the subject. This book has never been published in paperback but were it I'd probably give it a go though I can't imagine it's a light read.

Bop Apocalypse: JAZZ, RACE, THE BEATS, & DRUGS — MARTIN TORGOFF

Martin Torgoff's Latest Book - Bop Apocalypse: Jazz, Race, The Beats, and Drugs

www.martintorgoff.com

There's loads of people who met Davis who came away underwhelmed with him as a person and you have to assume the drug use contributed to that. Does that tarnish their legacy? Some bucked the trend, why did Gillespie manage to avoid the perils when so many around him didn't? Cab Calloway produced songs about drug use but apparently didn't take them himself.

In some ways the drug use mirrors the changes in the music itself. In the swing era in was marijuana but then when bebop appeared it mutated into heroin use. Looser music looser drug, hard music hard drugs.

With Coltrane (who is my personal favourite) the sadness was that he did manage to kick the habit but it's highly likely by then the physical damage was sufficiently great that it was this that led to his early death.

 

[Resurrection Joe...]

Blimey, yes where to start on this. It's such a big thing that I think there's phd's written on the subject. This book has never been published in paperback but were it I'd probably give it a go though I can't imagine it's a light read.

Bop Apocalypse: JAZZ, RACE, THE BEATS, & DRUGS — MARTIN TORGOFF

Martin Torgoff's Latest Book - Bop Apocalypse: Jazz, Race, The Beats, and Drugs

www.martintorgoff.com

There's loads of people who met Davis who came away underwhelmed with him as a person and you have to assume the drug use contributed to that. Does that tarnish their legacy? Some bucked the trend, why did Gillespie manage to avoid the perils when so many around him didn't? Cab Calloway produced songs about drug use but apparently didn't take them himself.

In some ways the drug use mirrors the changes in the music itself. In the swing era in was marijuana but then when bebop appeared it mutated into heroin use. Loose music loose drugs, hard music hard drugs.

With Coltrane (who is my personal favourite) the sadness was that he did manage to kick the habit but it's highly likely by then the physical damage was sufficiently great that it was this that led to his early death.

even Satchmo' hoovered up the 'tea' back in the day, and I think Billie Holliday indulged herself in most things.....
Good call in the Ray CELESTIN 'blues quartet' of novels...I have them all, I think thats it for Ray on the subject unfortunately although he does write crime novels outside of the genre.

 

[threespires]

Finally, I can get a nomination on the board (as I feel I nicked Gershwin from Sadds). I stumbled across this in my readings, had a listen and it sounds great.

EDIT: then added the Monk tune

"Un Poco Loco" - Bud Powell
"Round Midnight" - Thelonious Monk

Gone for a couple of classics there Rob.

Mention of Monk, who was far from universally loved for his idiosyncratic approach, makes me think of another pianist who very much ploughed his own furrow... If you are feeling cosmic check out Herman Blount otherwise known as Sun Ra who is possibly one of the most underrated jazz men, maybe as a result of him claiming to be an alien and dressing accordingly. Notwithstanding his unusual approach he was a bit of a restless pioneer in the Miles Davis mode and he definitely deserves a mention here.

 

[Resurrection Joe...]

Gone for a couple of classics there Rob.

Mention of Monk, who was far from universally loved for his idiosyncratic approach, makes me think of another pianist who very much ploughed his own furrow... If you are feeling cosmic check out Herman Blount otherwise known as Sun Ra who is possibly one of the most underrated jazz men, maybe as a result of him claiming to be an alien and dressing accordingly. Notwithstanding his unusual approach he was a bit of a restless pioneer in the Miles Davis mode and he definitely deserves a mention here.

of a later vintage...the recently departed sax player Pharoah Sanders was no slouch on the wierd front...

 

[threespires]

How about Benny Goodman Band with Gene KRUPA...'Sing, sing, sing'

I'd like to claim it was someone edgier like Jimmy Giuffre who inspired me to take it up the clarinet but in reality it was probably more to do with the fact that my Dad liked Benny Goodman and my Mum liked Acker Bilk! Like most kids I took it up with a view to moving onto the (imo opinion at the time) much cooler saxophone but stuck with it. Got my hands on an alto sax in later life much to the distress of everyone around me. If they'd buy me one of those Roland or Akai synthesized wind instruments then I could just put headphones on and they wouldn't have to suffer.