Rock Evolution – The History of Rock & Roll - 1985 - (page 203)

threespires said:
Have a cousin who was on the periphery of MacColl's circle for a while and that sounds about right.

Other factors impacted too like the diffusion of folk into different sub genres and just societal changes. I think the number of clubs or venues has gone up again from the low point of probably the early 80s. Like almost everything else musical in this country post war, the skiffle era gave folk a boost at the time.

Anyone interested in online folk resources could do worse than look at the Mudcat Cafe. It looks like it's still being maintained using AOL but the content is sound!
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Is MacColl Kirsty MacColl?
 
500songs.com

Episode 1: “Flying Home” by the Benny Goodman Sextet

A look at the 1938 classic by Benny Goodman.
500songs.com 500songs.com
This podcast might be of interest to people following this thread. Very detailed and busts quite a few myths. The episodes start off quite short (due mainly to lack of sources) but by the late 60s they get longer. He's very keen to point out it's "a history" not "the history".
 
threespires said:
I was referring to Ewan. I don't think Kirsty actually had that much to do with her Dad, she certainly didn't seem to think he was an influence of any sort. Don't know how much she saw of him?
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In a 1989 interview she said

“Setting the record straight on her upbringing, “My father is Ewan MacColl, my mother is Jean MacColl. I didn’t grow up with my dad, I grew up with my mum who wasn’t a musician but a choreographer. I knew my dad did gigs, but I only saw him once a week so it didn’t have that much impact. And I wasn’t really that interested in folk music because I associated it with their generation, not mine. I was into pop music. This musical, folk heritage that I’m supposed to have just didn’t exist. I was probably pretty lonely as a child. My brother had left home, so I was on my own a lot. I learned guitar at school and seemed to spend my childhood listening to records. Now, when I hear a single I bought when I was eight, I can picture what I was wearing and doing then. Play me The Three Degrees and I’m back in the old school disco … “

But I seem to remember seeing something where she said she took Kite along for him to listen to - he demanded to see the text - so she gave him it and he sat and listened in silence and then gave a non-committal grunt which she took to be approval. I’m not sure how much I’m remembering correctly - but I had the impression of a daughter desperately seeking her absent Fathers approval. These relationship are so complicated!
 
cyan said:
But I seem to remember seeing something where she said she took Kite along for him to listen to - he demanded to see the text - so she gave him it and he sat and listened in silence and then gave a non-committal grunt which she took to be approval. I’m not sure how much I’m remembering correctly - but I had the impression of a daughter desperately seeking her absent Fathers approval. These relationship are so complicated!
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Found it …

These had been there from the beginning. The effect of Kirsty’s father, the folk musician Ewan, who drifted in and out of her life as a child, persisted; against him, she wanted to rebel at the same time as she wanted to impress him. (When she played him 1989’s Kite, released earlier in the year that he died, he asked to read the “text” and turned the album down, before saying, ‘Very good, Kirsty. That’s the best thing I’ve ever heard you do”. She was pleased, Lillywhite said: “We all need parental acceptance”.) https://thequietus.com/opinion-and-essays/black-sky-thinking/kirsty-maccoll-see-that-girl-box/
 
cyan said:
Found it …

These had been there from the beginning. The effect of Kirsty’s father, the folk musician Ewan, who drifted in and out of her life as a child, persisted; against him, she wanted to rebel at the same time as she wanted to impress him. (When she played him 1989’s Kite, released earlier in the year that he died, he asked to read the “text” and turned the album down, before saying, ‘Very good, Kirsty. That’s the best thing I’ve ever heard you do”. She was pleased, Lillywhite said: “We all need parental acceptance”.) https://thequietus.com/opinion-and-essays/black-sky-thinking/kirsty-maccoll-see-that-girl-box/
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Good read that, thanks. Ewan MacColl was quite a domineering bloke by most accounts.
 
RobMCFC said:
That's OK, we'll just re-organise everything behind your back :)

Looks like it's going to be a quiet week in here!
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Ha I feel very unqualified to comment. I do like the earlier stuff you've posted as opposed to the Nashville sound later stuff. The earlier work feels more real because it lacks the polish of the Reeves and Cline stuff. It sounds better but is less appealing

It's not super relevant to the discussion but I did wonder if the advance of technology shaped the sound or if the sound demanded the technology? For example the Beatles seemed to be inspired by the technology they used but they also inspired some of the technology to be created. Same with Bing Crosby who kind of created non-live TV because he didn't want to have to film his show twice. It also meant they could fake audience interaction and edit the bad takes out.

Then because the technology allows more polish does it make it more accessible to casual fans of the genre but ultimately less loved?
 
mrbelfry said:
Ha I feel very unqualified to comment. I do like the earlier stuff you've posted as opposed to the Nashville sound later stuff. The earlier work feels more real because it lacks the polish of the Reeves and Cline stuff. It sounds better but is less appealing

It's not super relevant to the discussion but I did wonder if the advance of technology shaped the sound or if the sound demanded the technology? For example the Beatles seemed to be inspired by the technology they used but they also inspired some of the technology to be created. Same with Bing Crosby who kind of created non-live TV because he didn't want to have to film his show twice. It also meant they could fake audience interaction and edit the bad takes out.

Then because the technology allows more polish does it make it more accessible to casual fans of the genre but ultimately less loved?
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Yes, that's a good observation Re: the difference between the original country sound and Nashville Sound. It's something the roots musicians have been trying to get back to over the last 30 or 40 years - a subject that will no doubt crop up in our discussions of future years.

I find the Jimmie Rodgers and Woody Guthrie songs fascinating from a historical perspective, but they are not the kind of thing that I could listen to too often. Now Bill Monroe's music on the other hand sounds fresh and exciting even though it is nearly 80 years old.

As for the technology, I think it's great when it's used to produce a clearer recording but not so great when it starts to overwhelm the music. Again, something else that will be interesting to listen out for as the thread progresses.
 
RobMCFC said:
That's OK, we'll just re-organise everything behind your back :)

Looks like it's going to be a quiet week in here!
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I'm afraid I'm back!

I had quite an enjoyable time listening to a greatest 50's Country music playlist last night as it's an era I have limited familiarity with.

One person I was very familiar with though was the Man in Black who I don't think has actually come up yet?

As a youngster I didn't really get him or his voice but now I think it's one of the great elemental sounds of post war popular music.

The late 50s were his first big era and tbh we could pick virtually anything off his debut but I'm going to be obvious:

Folsom Prison Blues - Johnny Cash

Though in fairness it wasn't a single and it would be a few years before we'd hear that famous 'Hello, I'm Johnny Cash' intro to it at Folsom.

Is rockabilly really country ? Not sure, but don't care! What a voice, what a performer, what a life!
 
I've been toying with buying the book 26 Songs in 30 Days for a while so this thread has tipped me over the edge.

I've always thought Woodie Guthrie's stint employed by the BPA to write about all things related to the Grand Coulee Dam and all things Hydro, was a slightly bizarre way to end with a number of folk classics but at another level it makes total sense.
Gets great reviews but I will report back as and when I'm done.
 
threespires said:
I'm afraid I'm back!

I had quite an enjoyable time listening to a greatest 50's Country music playlist last night as it's an era I have limited familiarity with.

One person I was very familiar with though was the Man in Black who I don't think has actually come up yet?

As a youngster I didn't really get him or his voice but now I think it's one of the great elemental sounds of post war popular music.

The late 50s were his first big era and tbh we could pick virtually anything off his debut but I'm going to be obvious:

Folsom Prison Blues - Johnny Cash

Though in fairness it wasn't a single and it would be a few years before we'd hear that famous 'Hello, I'm Johnny Cash' intro to it at Folsom.

Is rockabilly really country ? Not sure, but don't care! What a voice, what a performer, what a life!
Click to expand...
The Man in Black was indeed in an earlier cut of my list but I thought I'd leave the door open for somebody.

I always thought that this song was from the late 60s but I guess that's just me associating it with the At Folsom Prison live album.

This is definitely country - I think that rockabilly crosses over between country and Rock and Roll and is therefore fair game for this week. Great choice. Listening to this highlights the difference between "original country" (for want of a better term) and "The Nashville Sound".
 
RobMCFC said:
The Man in Black was indeed in an earlier cut of my list but I thought I'd leave the door open for somebody.

I always thought that this song was from the late 60s but I guess that's just me associating it with the At Folsom Prison live album.

This is definitely country - I think that rockabilly crosses over between country and Rock and Roll and is therefore fair game for this week. Great choice. Listening to this highlights the difference between "original country" (for want of a better term) and "The Nashville Sound".
Click to expand...
JC's musical origins were probably in Gospel / folk, which is maybe ' original country?...Gospel should sit in here somewhere perhaps as an 'origin' music rather than a flok offshoot?
 
RobMCFC said:
The Man in Black was indeed in an earlier cut of my list but I thought I'd leave the door open for somebody.

I always thought that this song was from the late 60s but I guess that's just me associating it with the At Folsom Prison live album.

This is definitely country - I think that rockabilly crosses over between country and Rock and Roll and is therefore fair game for this week. Great choice. Listening to this highlights the difference between "original country" (for want of a better term) and "The Nashville Sound".
Click to expand...

Yeah, that album and moment is so iconic but the song itself was written in '55. Cash wanted to go into Folsom much earlier but Colombia Records weren't having it I think.

On the subject of his prison concerts did you know that Granada TV was responsible for the San Quentin show?!
 
I've been having a root around to find some examples of British Folk Music from this period - to see how it was developed from the time when Cecil Sharp and others were collecting and the 1950's Folk Revival led by people like Ewan MacColl and AL Lloyd. I thought at first that any playlist would need go via classical music - Henry Woods' Fantasia on British sea Songs that you will hear every year at the Last Night of the Proms or anything by Ralph Vaughan Williams.

The other place to look is in Hymn Tunes, many of which took standard folk tunes and set them to found or newly written words - although what this period of collecting did was standardise tunes. For instances once "Whilst Shepherds Watched" had been printed alongside the tune "Winchester Old" in 1861 it became the only tune that many people sang it to - even though in many places it was sung to a different tune in every village. A tradition maintained in Sheffield and North Derbyshire.

But then I came across the Carpenter archive https://archives.vwml.org/records/JMC/1 - filled with notes and original disc/cylinder recordings from 1928-1972. I haven't got a clue how you fit it into a playlist - but anyone wanting to hear how folk music had developed by mid-20th century - this is amazing.
 
Resurrection Joe... said:
JC's musical origins were probably in Gospel / folk, which is maybe ' original country?...Gospel should sit in here somewhere perhaps as an 'origin' music rather than a flok offshoot?
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Tricky - we weren’t attempting to cover every type of music pre-1960, just the main genres that contributed to what came next in the 1960. It feels to me that gospel would fit more in the blues/jazz genres, but as we’ve had these, maybe next week’s pop playlist?

threespires said:
Yeah, that album and moment is so iconic but the song itself was written in '55. Cash wanted to go into Folsom much earlier but Colombia Records weren't having it I think.

On the subject of his prison concerts did you know that Granada TV was responsible for the San Quentin show?!
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Well they did the documentary so it makes sense.
 
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