PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Keeper!]

"Irrefutable evidence"

And the 115 has worked and done what the rest of the PL wanted.

We have held back in the market and let the others not only catch up but overtake.

Time to strike back with vengeance starting in January and this summer, no messing , pay what's required to bring in elite players.

 

[KS55]

Has nothing to do with the PL when this finishes though . It’s purely in the hands of the Tribunal.

I think the estimate mentioned includes potential appeals.

 

[waspish]

Based upon how the club have sat on their hands for 2 summers and failed to improve us or at least to maintain us at our peak, it says to me that despite all the unfounded happy clapping over the charges, we are in the shit.
The sale of Alverez is telling in all this
If we think we have problems now, god help us in the years ahead

Who did we buy two summers ago? How much did we spend!? Also make reasonable defence of the club on how they tried to fill a backup for Rodri! If you can do that you're worth listening to if not? Well?..

 

[petrusha]

They are factoring in time for an appeal by either side if the verdict doesn't go the way they want.

It appears that the hearing was adjourned last month, but will reconvene later this month for both parties to give their closing arguments. March seems like a reasonable bet for them to produce the final written judgment, given that it will need to be very thorough and be carefully drafted given the importance of the matters they're dealing with.

Who knows, and I may be wrong, but I don't personally see an appeal then dragging on for 12 months more or longer. The appeal might not cover all the issues, and in any event the appeal panel doesn't reexamine all the evidence. It will take the facts established in the first hearing and use that same evidence to establish whether the facts in question were properly assessed, whether any disputed points of law were applied correctly and whether any penalties were fairly set.

The hearing will therefore be quicker than the current one, but it still might not be practicable to hold the appeal until autumn given difficulties with scheduling and so on. But the hearing is likely to be significantly shorter than 10 or 12 weeks, and they may well be able to produce the judgment more quickly than the 3 months we're hypothesising for the current proceedings.

This is obviously all guesswork, but it's at least based on a knowledge of similar procedures to those involved in the current case. And based on that, Christmas or early 2026 might not be a bad punt for the final outcome if there's an appeal. Usual disclaimers apply.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Is everyone thinking transfer windows and other issues perhaps being linked, still being told to fuck off?

 

[M18CTID]

Based upon how the club have sat on their hands for 2 summers and failed to improve us or at least to maintain us at our peak, it says to me that despite all the unfounded happy clapping over the charges, we are in the shit.
The sale of Alverez is telling in all this
If we think we have problems now, god help us in the years ahead

Yeah, deffo mate. After all, they're only spending over £300 million on the stadium expansion!

 

[wolviedinho]

We all win together and we all go down together.

The pressure put on the fanbase for alot of seasons now with 115 and competing at the top has been exhausting at times. We all need this period to rest and reset.

So lucky pep decided to stay and help rebuild the squad.

Ignore the media if you can. Laugh at the stupid cunts for trying to create narratives to sell reactions. It’s all a game and they think we are all too stupid to see it.

It’s football, our club is struggling, that’s it. We go again.

 

[Whether or not]

And the 115 has worked and done what the rest of the PL wanted.

We have held back in the market and let the others not only catch up but overtake.

Time to strike back with vengeance starting in January and this summer, no messing , pay what's required to bring in elite players.

I don’t think the transfer business has been good. But it smacks more of complacency and over loyalty to certain ageing stars, than a result of 115 charges. And some bad luck re Rodri and Bobb. We have ploughed on at pace with a £300m ground improvement, and in Erling and Josko, signed two of the most sought after young players in world football in the last couple of years. The overall squad depth has certainly been allowed to weaken, but I’m not convinced it is charge related.

 

[KS55]

I don’t think the transfer business has been good. But it smacks more of complacency and over loyalty to certain ageing stars, than a result of 115 charges. And some bad luck re Rodri and Bobb. We have ploughed on at pace with a £300m ground improvement, and in Erling and Josko, signed two of the most sought after young players in world football in the last couple of years. The overall squad depth has certainly been allowed to weaken, but I’m not convinced it is charge related.

Spot on.

 

[LeonardoDaVnci]

Is everyone thinking transfer windows and other issues perhaps being linked, still being told to fuck off?

I believe the legal advice was to go into the hearing phase with the best possible bank ballance. That would help the narrative that the club’s financial management was highly professional and highly successful. Remeber the end of season interview when Khaldoon described the club as a "money making machine". At the time I thought that was a bit weird.

The costs will be huge, I'm sure the club have done their upmost to control it but since 115 day we must have spent tens of millions on legal fees.

The North Stand development and the new stadium in New York must also have had a huge financial impact at CFG level.

All of the above plus Pep constantly prevaricating about renewal, might explain the net profit in the summer transfer window,

The knock on effect of that window plus the injuries and loss of form led to yesterday. Even the most blinkered fan would have to admit how lucky we were to get away with a 2 nil pasting.

January will be very revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered far too risky. For me, this season is a write off, we just have to hope we qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

I believe the legal advice was to go into the hearing phase with the best possible bank ballance. That would help the narrative that the club’s financial management was highly professional and highly successful. Remeber the end of season interview when Khaldoon described the club was a "money making machine". At the time I thought that was a bit weird.

The costs will be huge, I'm sure the club have done their upmost to control it but since 115 day we must have spent tens of millions on legal fees.

The North Stand development and the new stadium in New York must also have had a huge financial mpact at CFG level.

All of the above plus Pep constantly prevaricating about renewal, might explain the net profit in the summer transfer window,

The knock on effect of that window plus the injuries and loss of form led to yesterday. Even the most blinkered fan would have to admit how lucky we were to get away with a 2 nil pasting.

January will be highly revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered too risky. For me this season is a write off, we just have to hope we're qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

Wow - logic and common sense! ;-)

 

[wolviedinho]

I believe the legal advice was to go into the hearing phase with the best possible bank ballance. That would help the narrative that the club’s financial management was highly professional and highly successful. Remeber the end of season interview when Khaldoon described the club as a "money making machine". At the time I thought that was a bit weird.

The costs will be huge, I'm sure the club have done their upmost to control it but since 115 day we must have spent tens of millions on legal fees.

The North Stand development and the new stadium in New York must also have had a huge financial impact at CFG level.

All of the above plus Pep constantly prevaricating about renewal, might explain the net profit in the summer transfer window,

The knock on effect of that window plus the injuries and loss of form led to yesterday. Even the most blinkered fan would have to admit how lucky we were to get away with a 2 nil pasting.

January will be highly revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered too risky. For me this season is a write off, we just have to hope we qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

Interesting point on the legal advice.

The club needed to be seen as financially prudent to deflect against the ongoing state funded, bottom less pit narrative created by our competitors.

The club has clearly taken the prudent approach when it come to serious investment in the squad. Leaving us not so good on the field.

It does grate somewhat that the 115 lies have had the desired impact on our dominance.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It appears that the hearing was adjourned last month, but will reconvene later this month for both parties to give their closing arguments. March seems like a reasonable bet for them to produce the final written judgment, given that it will need to be very thorough and be carefully drafted given the importance of the matters they're dealing with.

Who knows, and I may be wrong, but I don't personally see an appeal then dragging on for 12 months more or longer. The appeal might not cover all the issues, and in any event the appeal panel doesn't reexamine all the evidence. It will take the facts established in the first hearing and use that same evidence to establish whether the facts in question were properly assessed, whether any disputed points of law were applied correctly and whether any penalties were fairly set.

The hearing will therefore be quicker than the current one, but it still might not be practicable to hold the appeal until autumn given difficulties with scheduling and so on. But the hearing is likely to be significantly shorter than 10 or 12 weeks, and they may well be able to produce the judgment more quickly than the 3 months we're hypothesising for the current proceedings.

This is obviously all guesswork, but it's at least based on a knowledge of similar procedures to those involved in the current case. And based on that, Christmas or early 2026 might not be a bad punt for the final outcome if there's an appeal. Usual disclaimers apply.

I may be wrong, but the club can present evidence at the summation stage, or at appeal, that wasn't originally available at the time of the hearing, provided the panel agrees. Is that right?

 

[M12Blue]

And the 115 has worked and done what the rest of the PL wanted.

We have held back in the market and let the others not only catch up but overtake.

Time to strike back with vengeance starting in January and this summer, no messing , pay what's required to bring in elite players.

Absolutely.
For whatever team the team has been neglected. The succession planning for our elite players is still to start.
KDB, Gundo, Walker have fallen off a cliff.
Berny not far behind. Grealish ????
Stones a concern as never fit.
Need a midfield rebuild, RB, LB, number 10 /second striker.
No rough diamonds, elite level players.
The mantra in 2008 was big investment to accelerate performance, personally feel we are at that point again if we want to maintain our position as number 1. Scouse, Arse and Chelsea have overtaken us.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Is everyone thinking transfer windows and other issues perhaps being linked, still being told to fuck off?

By me, yes :) But I may be wrong.

The allegations are historic and nothing to do with the last two windows. Also, there is ample evidence of financial prudence from 2012 to 2018 as the accounts all complied with FFP.

I really don't see currently spending little money on recruitment as a defence against the allegations.

I suppose, if the club have done what is alleged and they are nervous about it, then they may cut back spending to show that the amounts fraudulently accounted for have not affected the results by enough to affect recent performance on the pitch but, firstly, I can't imagine the club has done what is alleged and, secondly, in the very unlikely situation that they have, then the above "defence" doesn't affect any of the years covered by the allegations and so the club would be in big trouble, whatever they have done after 2018.

To summarise, putting current performance at risk for a "defence" that has little value just doesn't seem a sensible strategy to me.

But, of course, I may be wrong.

 

[SilverFox2]

I believe the legal advice was to go into the hearing phase with the best possible bank ballance. That would help the narrative that the club’s financial management was highly professional and highly successful. Remeber the end of season interview when Khaldoon described the club as a "money making machine". At the time I thought that was a bit weird.

The costs will be huge, I'm sure the club have done their upmost to control it but since 115 day we must have spent tens of millions on legal fees.

The North Stand development and the new stadium in New York must also have had a huge financial impact at CFG level.

All of the above plus Pep constantly prevaricating about renewal, might explain the net profit in the summer transfer window,

The knock on effect of that window plus the injuries and loss of form led to yesterday. Even the most blinkered fan would have to admit how lucky we were to get away with a 2 nil pasting.

January will be very revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered far too risky. For me, this season is a write off, we just have to hope we qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

Good post.
All you say coupled with the Pep uncertainty left buying good players that a manager wants too much of a gamble.

I think you are right and we will make do with less emphasis on older players recovering form.
Rodri's prophecy about too many games is finding us out so a definately revamp season for City I think.

 

[petrusha]

I may be wrong, but the club can present evidence at the summation stage, or at appeal, that wasn't originally available at the time of the hearing, provided the panel agrees. Is that right?

Yes, but the rules also specify that any evidence thus admitted with the appeal panel's permission must have been unavailable during the initial hearing. I don't think that will be a serious issue for us, though. Why would we not have presented available evidence at the initial hearing if it was even remotely likely to be helpful to our case.

 

[Keeper!]

I believe the legal advice was to go into the hearing phase with the best possible bank ballance. That would help the narrative that the club’s financial management was highly professional and highly successful. Remeber the end of season interview when Khaldoon described the club as a "money making machine". At the time I thought that was a bit weird.

The costs will be huge, I'm sure the club have done their upmost to control it but since 115 day we must have spent tens of millions on legal fees.

The North Stand development and the new stadium in New York must also have had a huge financial impact at CFG level.

All of the above plus Pep constantly prevaricating about renewal, might explain the net profit in the summer transfer window,

The knock on effect of that window plus the injuries and loss of form led to yesterday. Even the most blinkered fan would have to admit how lucky we were to get away with a 2 nil pasting.

January will be very revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered far too risky. For me, this season is a write off, we just have to hope we qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

You make some superb and valid points but a 300m investment in infrastructure is it any different from investing in players the actual commodity of a football club?

If we don't spend this January and make a serious statement then I am genuinely worried about this case and the implications.

 

[paulchapo]

January will be very revealing, if we make a couple of high profile signings I would be amazed. Despite the onfield risks of throwing in new players mid season I think splurging £100m on new players during the decision phase could be considered far too risky. For me, this season is a write off, we just have to hope we qualify for the 25/26 UCL.

Yes and no. I'm sure we know a couple of players we want to sign in summer already. Rodri's injury and our terrible form will have made them a priority now. Whether we can get their clubs and the player to agree to move in January is another matter.

 

[petrusha]

Yes and no. I'm sure we know a couple of players we want to sign in summer already. Rodri's injury and our terrible form will have made them a priority now. Whether we can get their clubs and the player to agree to move in January is another matter.

Let's say that, in January, we sign a player with a release clause (for the sake of argument, Zubamendi, but that's just an example) and a relatively cheap left-field option such as the Japanese striker at Celtic we were linked with in the summer. And would it be a surprise if we then we let McAtee go - I like him, but if he's getting only 72 minutes so far this season in the PL and CL with the injuries we have and given that he's 22 already, it's hard to see him playing much of a role in our future.

That still probably leaves us well up on the season's net spend. However, it might just be a sign that it's difficult to persuade clubs to release the players we want in the winter transfer window. And, while I do believe that the current disciplinary proceedings have been responsible to a significant degree for City wanting to be seen to be prudent in the market, I don't think it's the sole cause of our holding back on spending in the summer.

I also think a major factor is that they wanted to hold off and see if Pep would renew or not before committing to spending a lot of money on new players who might then not fit under the new guy. Unfortunately, that took a risk in terms of fatigue not turning into injuries in an ageing squad that's been harder worked in recent years than any of our rivals (we've had significantly more players involved in international tournaments and playing significantly more minutes than have Liverpool or Arsenal, say).

And there was also a probably a degree of complacency, perhaps even on Pep's part as well as that of the execs. If they thought that the deal for Alvarez was too good to turn down and he wanted to go, I think they thought a possible use of the false 9 system and perhaps the hoped for emergence of Oscar Bobb would see us OK. It's really been a perfect storm, unfortunately, but I'm relatively sanguine about us getting through it.