United (H) - Sun 15th Dec, 16:30 | PL | Pre-Match Thread

Match Result Prediction?

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BamberBridgeBlue said:
It’s a combination of injuries, loss of form, players who’ve gone on 1 season too long who are also injury prone and a complete loss of confidence.

Both positions can be true. I get we’ve come a long way since losing at home to Wycombe, Bury, Oldham and Stockport but you’ll pardon some of us for not regarding it as a crisis. United, Chelsea, Spurs have been missing out on the Champions League in recent years. None of them have disappeared off the planet. We might miss out on Champions League for a season, we might not. There’s that whole fallacy that players won’t come if you’re not in the Champions League. Seems nobody told Chelsea or United signings.

The opposite position is that we have slapped arse trophy junkie fans who can’t cope with the uncertainty of football. Wouldn’t do if we were all the same would it? I doubt the club will be cancelling any statues because of the season of relative failure.
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It’s also a big comedown from the hugely intensive efforts of winning four league titles in a row including a quintuple.

In the last decade, teams who’ve won just one league title have seen massive drop-offs the season after because it takes a monumental effort to win the PL.

United - Champions in 2013, 7th in 2014
Chelsea - Champions in 2015, 10th in 2016
Leicester - Champions in 2016, 12th in 2017
Chelsea - Champions in 2017, 5th in 2018

City - Champions in 1968, 13th in 1969
City - Champions in 1937, relegated in 1938

Even in 2019-20, after achieving 100pts and 98pts to win two PL titles in a row plus a domestic quadruple in the previous two seasons; we finished a distant second on 81pts and we had a much better team that season than we have now.

Liverpool got 99pts then 97pts two seasons running, finishing second and first. Then in 2020-21, fell of a cliff and only got 69pts finishing 3rd.
Then in 2021-22, finished 2nd with 92pts and fell off another cliff to 67pts finishing 5th in 2022-23.

Even to a lesser extent: Newcastle getting into the top four, then dropping off since and Villa doing the same this past two seasons.

How many teams do you see get promoted, have a good season, then get relegated in the second season?

Drop-offs happen. They’re completely natural. The lack of understand of that is absolutely mental from our fanbase, it’s barely being spoken about at all. I genuinely feel like I’m one of the few talking about it.

And we didn’t just win one league title, or two in a row, we won FOUR IN A ROW, in addition to the Champions League (with the hugely tough run of Bayern in the quarters, Madrid in the semis plus a massively tough final against Inter which must have been mentally gruelling in the manner the game went), FA Cup (with final against our biggest rivals), Super Cup and Club World Cup.
 
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M23 Citizen said:
It’s also a big comedown from the hugely intensive efforts of winning four league titles in a row including a quintuple.

In the last decade, teams who’ve won just one league title have seen massive drop-offs the season after because it takes a monumental effort to win the PL.

United - Champions in 2013, 7th in 2014
Chelsea - Champions in 2015, 10th in 2016
Leicester - Champions in 2016, 12th in 2017
Chelsea - Champions in 2017, 5th in 2018

City - Champions in 1968, 13th in 1969
City - Champions in 1937, relegated in 1938

Even in 2019-20, after achieving 100pts and 98pts to win two PL titles in a row plus a domestic quadruple in the previous two seasons; we finished a distant second on 81pts and we had a much better team that season than we have now.

Liverpool got 99pts then 97pts two seasons running, finishing second and first. Then in 2020-21, fell of a cliff and only got 69pts finishing 3rd.
Then in 2021-22, finished 2nd with 92pts and dropped off again to 67pts finishing 5th in 2022-23.

Even to a lesser extent: Newcastle getting into the top four, then dropping off since and Villa doing the same this past two seasons.

How many teams do you see get promoted, have a good season, then get relegated in the second season?

Drop-offs happen. They’re completely natural. The lack of understand of that is absolutely mental from our fanbase, it’s barely being spoken about at all. I genuinely feel like I’m one of the few talking about it.

And we didn’t just win one league title, or two in a row, we won FOUR IN A ROW, in addition to the Champions League (with the hugely tough run of Bayern in the quarters, Madrid in the semis plus a massively tough final against Inter which must have been mentally gruelling in the manner the game went), FA Cup, Super Cup and Club World Cup.
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This is basic stuff. Some lack the attention span or, sorry for being a bit rude, intelligence to get it.
 
Blumooniac said:
Smash the b***ards. Never enjoy derbies, too wound up. Last year's Cup Final still hurts.
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It's easy to be wise after the event, but in a way what happened last May was a harbinger of this season. It put the writing on the wall.
That was already a deeply weary team that got to the final. Weary physically and mentally. It's amazing they even made it that far. They didn't really recover properly in the summer (with bloody UEFA and FIFA, footballers at the very top clubs don't properly get time in the summer to not think about football, then there's all the promotional stuff for the club in countries far afield, the 99%, you know, that lot). They came back in not fully refreshed, in my view. We did ok, coasted in the early matches, but it was flattering to deceive. Then we ran into the brick wall of injuries and just utterly jaded performances. I'm not counting Bobb, that's a different story, but I'm convinced that Rod's injury was just his body giving out, protesting after the accumulation of match after match after match. It's interesting how ACLs tend to happen to key players in any team, players who've carried huge responsibilities in games.
Anyway, I still think we'll beat this lot, because they're just perennially not very good. They're not going through a bad patch. They are a bad patch.
 
M23 Citizen said:
It’s also a big comedown from the hugely intensive efforts of winning four league titles in a row including a quintuple.

In the last decade, teams who’ve won just one league title have seen massive drop-offs the season after because it takes a monumental effort to win the PL.

United - Champions in 2013, 7th in 2014
Chelsea - Champions in 2015, 10th in 2016
Leicester - Champions in 2016, 12th in 2017
Chelsea - Champions in 2017, 5th in 2018

City - Champions in 1968, 13th in 1969
City - Champions in 1937, relegated in 1938

Even in 2019-20, after achieving 100pts and 98pts to win two PL titles in a row plus a domestic quadruple in the previous two seasons; we finished a distant second on 81pts and we had a much better team that season than we have now.

Liverpool got 99pts then 97pts two seasons running, finishing second and first. Then in 2020-21, fell of a cliff and only got 69pts finishing 3rd.
Then in 2021-22, finished 2nd with 92pts and fell off another cliff to 67pts finishing 5th in 2022-23.

Even to a lesser extent: Newcastle getting into the top four, then dropping off since and Villa doing the same this past two seasons.

How many teams do you see get promoted, have a good season, then get relegated in the second season?

Drop-offs happen. They’re completely natural. The lack of understand of that is absolutely mental from our fanbase, it’s barely being spoken about at all. I genuinely feel like I’m one of the few talking about it.

And we didn’t just win one league title, or two in a row, we won FOUR IN A ROW, in addition to the Champions League (with the hugely tough run of Bayern in the quarters, Madrid in the semis plus a massively tough final against Inter which must have been mentally gruelling in the manner the game went), FA Cup, Super Cup and Club World Cup.
Click to expand...
thank you for writing what's in my head - drop-offs are a completely natural part of football. Many would do well to remember that. (City's just happens to look quite stark).

I myself aren't too worried if we finish anywhere from 1st to about....12th? just putter along, do what needs to be done, make sure next season is a better, more joined up effort. All this talk of top 4 being essential is complete nonsense.

N.B. i'd prefer it if we were good again!! but you know, shit happens. it takes time.
 
Ric said:
If Akanji isn’t available, and we only have three fit senior defenders, I think Guardiola might just play a back three and flood the midfield to try and give us more control. Sort of a 3-6-1, or 3-2-4-1, formation. Seem to remember him doing something similar in the past.

Ortega

Walker
Dias
Gvardiol

Kovacic
Gundogan

Grealish
De Bruyne
Bernardo
Foden

Haaland

Doku and Savinho can be impact subs later on when the game is more stretched.
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That would be horrible with them breaking but, I've got no answers.
 
M23 Citizen said:
It’s also a big comedown from the hugely intensive efforts of winning four league titles in a row including a quintuple.

In the last decade, teams who’ve won just one league title have seen massive drop-offs the season after because it takes a monumental effort to win the PL.

United - Champions in 2013, 7th in 2014
Chelsea - Champions in 2015, 10th in 2016
Leicester - Champions in 2016, 12th in 2017
Chelsea - Champions in 2017, 5th in 2018

City - Champions in 1968, 13th in 1969
City - Champions in 1937, relegated in 1938

Even in 2019-20, after achieving 100pts and 98pts to win two PL titles in a row plus a domestic quadruple in the previous two seasons; we finished a distant second on 81pts and we had a much better team that season than we have now.

Liverpool got 99pts then 97pts two seasons running, finishing second and first. Then in 2020-21, fell of a cliff and only got 69pts finishing 3rd.
Then in 2021-22, finished 2nd with 92pts and fell off another cliff to 67pts finishing 5th in 2022-23.

Even to a lesser extent: Newcastle getting into the top four, then dropping off since and Villa doing the same this past two seasons.

How many teams do you see get promoted, have a good season, then get relegated in the second season?

Drop-offs happen. They’re completely natural. The lack of understand of that is absolutely mental from our fanbase, it’s barely being spoken about at all. I genuinely feel like I’m one of the few talking about it.

And we didn’t just win one league title, or two in a row, we won FOUR IN A ROW, in addition to the Champions League (with the hugely tough run of Bayern in the quarters, Madrid in the semis plus a massively tough final against Inter which must have been mentally gruelling in the manner the game went), FA Cup (with final against our biggest rivals), Super Cup and Club World Cup.
Click to expand...
This difficult spell and the unexpected perfect storm has shattered the team and Pep.

That fact that it has affected so many players would indicate that its like a post viral infection,which debilitates all normal functions and takes many, many weeks to recover from, and many, many more to regain peak health a fitness.

Its like living in a bubble of fog and haze.

We have made steps forward only experience a succession of futher set backs. That in its self is demoralising and eats away at confidence.....its a vicious circle of negativity that seems never ending.

But it will start to improve, things will begin to improve at all levels, we will see progress and success.

We're Mancunians.

We're City.

Superbia en Proelio !!

Ps....smash the out of town vermin and imposters on Sunday.
 
shemnel said:
thank you for writing what's in my head - drop-offs are a completely natural part of football. Many would do well to remember that. (City's just happens to look quite stark).

I myself aren't too worried if we finish anywhere from 1st to about....12th? just putter along, do what needs to be done, make sure next season is a better, more joined up effort. All this talk of top 4 being essential is complete nonsense.

N.B. i'd prefer it if we were good again!! but you know, shit happens. it takes time.
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CL qualification is vital to attract elite players for the rebuild/refit.
 
jimharri said:
I've hated derby days for as long as I can remember. The thought of losing to them, even when we used to be good, made me sick. Now that we're barely ahead of them, form-wise, I can see them doing us on sunday. They've got a few players with pace, which is our kryptonite at the moment.
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Their attacking pace is a concern, but also the fact that we don't have any ball winners in our team. Will be incredibly frustrating to watch an aging Casemiro and their new guy smashing into tackles unchallenged.
 
There xg was low as the final pass or two wasnt there......a better team than forest takes those opportunities and creates those clear chances
....the real stat that is the only relevant one if you want to use one is yhe amount of games we are losing and the goals concerned because of how we are wide open in midfield and defensively....someone asked what different...there are possibilities...they may not work either but the only certain thing at the moment is that the current set up ain't working as it needs players with certain attributes and abilities to make it work - and they aren't available or able to play in that any more

I never said i knew more thn Pep...infact i clearly said he knows more so what is clear is that you struggle see what is plainly infront of you

I love Pep...he can stay forever as far as im concerned regardless of results...but he us not perfect and says himself that he gets it wrong......this is one of those moments
alexmcity said:
xG in this game: 3:20 City - 0.80 Forest

It was much closer to 5:1 than to 2:1. And it was an excellent performance overall.

This is why I doubt your suggestions. You can't see what is in front of you but pretend to know better than Pep what he should be doi
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Wonder how fit Kovacic is, think he's essential for when Rodri is out, the bad form has coincided with his injury

If he's fit enough, he starts for me

Tbf given the injuries or "illness" injuries for our squad we never really know who's available

I'd like to see Nunes in the midfield, we will need his legs and Gundogan/Bernardo, even though they're Pep's favorites, need a game out... doubt Pep benches either

I'd get Wilson-Esbrand at LB, but again I can't see Pep doing that

Short on defenders if Ake/Stones/Akanji are all out... could see the return of a back 3 with Bernardo/Jack as wide wingers/wingback or maybe Bernardo at LB... God I hope its not that
 
If we go three at the back then fear the space will be exploited by them on the break.
We saw how easily Juve broke on us and can imagine Rat face and fat face looking for balls over the midfield into space left when we are attacking.
We have seen how easy it has been for teams to break on us even forest had opportunities, so hope as Dias said we concentrate on basics like not having all our defenders 10 yards inside their half with no cover on the half way line.
Anyway will be going and looking for committed performance/Pep to get it right/Haarland to bag a few/Silvao to be the Silva we know/Kovacic to be in the team/and anyone to smash moaning ratface!
Come on City!!!
 
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