How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[hampshireblue]

Worth a watch despite the ugly fucker at the start.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Henry having a meltdown because his Nirvana hasn't materialised after 8 whole years - of course he offers no actual suggestions as to exactly how we get to his promised land ...... sad old man

It’s actually insane that someone who voted to put more power in the hands of our politicians, then blames what they voted for not being implemented on the quality of those politicians that they voted to give that power to.

It’s akin to putting your life savings on a three legged horse and then blaming the horse when it doesn’t win.

Presumably at the time he voted for Brexit he must have thought the likes of May and Johnson had a plan to deliver it, which makes him an even bigger fool. It’s insane that any rational person could not see that our political class were (and are) completely incapable of addressing anything that contains any modicum of complexity or nuance.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It’s actually insane that someone who voted to put more power in the hands of our politicians, then blames what they voted for not being implemented on the quality of those politicians that they voted to give that power to.

It’s akin to putting your life savings on a three legged horse and then blaming the horse when it doesn’t win.

Presumably at the time he voted for Brexit he must have thought the likes of May and Johnson had a plan to deliver it, which makes him an even bigger fool. It’s insane that any rational person could not see that our political class were (and are) completely incapable of addressing anything that contains any modicum of complexity or nuance.

He is claiming Farage didn't have a plan. It's just a sad, pathetic man on an ego trip. Not sure what route to power or money he thinks is on offer but if you read the thread of his replies under the video it's obvious it's all about himself.

The deluded **** has a totally different image of himself to the one that the world sees.

 

[bluethrunthru]

going well

 

[bluethrunthru]

It’s actually insane that someone who voted to put more power in the hands of our politicians, then blames what they voted for not being implemented on the quality of those politicians that they voted to give that power to.

It’s akin to putting your life savings on a three legged horse and then blaming the horse when it doesn’t win.

Presumably at the time he voted for Brexit he must have thought the likes of May and Johnson had a plan to deliver it, which makes him an even bigger fool. It’s insane that any rational person could not see that our political class were (and are) completely incapable of addressing anything that contains any modicum of complexity or nuance.

he is one of those "they need us more than we need them" delusional cunts - doubtless he refers to England rather than the UK in conversation - a total throw back

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It’s actually insane that someone who voted to put more power in the hands of our politicians, then blames what they voted for not being implemented on the quality of those politicians that they voted to give that power to.

It’s akin to putting your life savings on a three legged horse and then blaming the horse when it doesn’t win.

Presumably at the time he voted for Brexit he must have thought the likes of May and Johnson had a plan to deliver it, which makes him an even bigger fool. It’s insane that any rational person could not see that our political class were (and are) completely incapable of addressing anything that contains any modicum of complexity or nuance.

Out of interest, who is to blame then if the promised policies have not been enacted fully or correctly. Is it not the fault of the politicians who promised things they haven't delivered? That's usually the way things work in politics. People on these threads are always blaming politicians for not enacting things. Everyone plays the blame game on here, including you.

 

[BrianW]

When you fuck up big time - find someone else to blame.

These people believed Brexit would turn us into Camelot. Because it hasn't, it must be someone else's fault—not their fault, obviously. So it has to be the politicians, civil servants, remainers, the Magic Bunny, or the EU for daring not to give us everything we asked for and more.

The delusion is off the scale. They simply will not accept that Brexit was never going to work!

It was always going to make us poorer, reduce our options and leave us at the mercy of the big players. That's exactly what we've got. How dare these people blame others for their own rank stupidity?

 

[BrianW]

Out of interest, who is to blame then if the promised policies have not been enacted fully or correctly. Is it not the fault of the politicians who promised things they haven't delivered? That's usually the way things work in politics. People on these threads are always blaming politicians for not enacting things. Everyone plays the blame game on here, including you.

Politicians are to blame if they make impossible promises. For example, to give everyone over 18 a gold bar each birthday. This clearly cannot be delivered because it's obviously a nonsense.

Voters are to blame if they elect fantasists just because they like the fantasy.

'The system' may be to blame if politicians make a reasonable promise - say electric trains from Manchester to Southport - and then fail to put it into action.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Out of interest, who is to blame then if the promised policies have not been enacted fully or correctly. Is it not the fault of the politicians who promised things they haven't delivered? That's usually the way things work in politics. People on these threads are always blaming politicians for not enacting things. Everyone plays the blame game on here, including you.

The blame, such as it is, and in the context of this particular subject, ultimately rests with people who voted for it in the reckless assumption that we had the political class and systems to deliver it effectively, assuming it was possible to do so.

Did you think we had? Do you still hold that view now?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Politicians are to blame if they make impossible promises. For example, to give everyone over 18 a gold bar each birthday. This clearly cannot be delivered because it's obviously a nonsense.

Voters are to blame if they elect fantasists just because they like the fantasy.

'The system' may be to blame if politicians make a reasonable promise - say electric trains from Manchester to Southport - and then fail to put it into action.

Oh, so taking out your fantasist get of clause, it is eseentially the politicians fault. Just checking. By the way Brian I asked you a question last week about the term you use alot, the far right, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. Cheers.

Out of interest what do you class as being far right in the UK. Is the far right the rioters this August? Is it voting for Reform? is it backing Kemi Bardenochs Conservatism? is it just voting for Brexit. Is it just wanting to slow the rate of immigration?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The blame, such as it is, and in the context of this particular subject, ultimately rests with people who voted for it in the reckless assumption that we had the political class and systems to deliver it effectively, assuming it was possible to do so.

Did you think we had? Do you still hold that view now?

Got it now, it's only reckless in that you don't agree with it. That's the issue with politics and democracy. Everyone has an opinion.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Got it now, it's only reckless in that you don't agree with it. That's the issue with politics and democracy. Everyone has an opinion.

Please don’t tell me what I’m thinking. There are plenty of things I disagree with that I don’t think are reckless.

Recklessness is essentially taking a decision that contains significant inherent risk and proceeding in a particular way despite that risk.

Any sane person would accept that leaving the EU contained risk, including in which had to have been the ability of our political class to deliver it, given that it would be their responsibility to do so.

My evaluation of recklessness is based on an assessment that people made that our political class were capable of delivering Brexit effectively - an assessment that has been proven to be wholly, undeniably and demonstrably wrong - and has had hugely negative consequences for this country and its future standing in the world.

I would say that it’s perfectly reasonable to characterise that as reckless.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Please don’t tell me what I’m thinking. There are plenty of things I disagree with that I don’t think are reckless.

Recklessness is essentially taking a decision that contains significant inherent risk and proceeding in a particular way despite that risk.

Any sane person would accept that leaving the EU contained risk, including in which had to have been the ability of our political class to deliver it, given that it would be their responsibility to do so.

My evaluation of recklessness is based on an assessment that people made that our political class were capable of delivering Brexit effectively - an assessment that has been proven to be wholly, undeniably and demonstrably wrong - and has had hugely negative consequences for this country and its future standing in the world.

I would say that it’s perfectly reasonable to characterise that as reckless.

In your opinion.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

In your opinion.

And an opinion that’s been thought out and considered, not simply based on a difference of opinion as your post stridently asserted.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

And an opinion that’s been thought out and considered, not simply based on a difference of opinion as your post stridently asserted.

Based on your statements, I happen to disagree. There is no balance or objectivity in your statements.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

My evaluation of recklessness is based on an assessment that people made that our political class were capable of delivering Brexit effectively - an assessment that has been proven to be wholly, undeniably and demonstrably wrong

Brexit was not deliverable as a success by any political class.

It could have been done better, but was always going to deliver the opposite of what was promised.

What it then did was eviscerate our political class, because it was (and still is) impossible to speak the truth about it. Thus in order to be in politics around the time of Brexit you either had to be a liar or a fool. And that still applies in large degree today, particularly but not only on the right.

 

[Deleted member 10327]

Who gives a fuck.
We all end up dead anyway.
Life’s too short.

 

[hampshireblue]

Based on your statements, I happen to disagree. There is no balance or objectivity in your statements.

And that just happens to be your opinion which seems to be a black or white view and therefore with little balance or objectivity. And there it is in a nutshell where there is no middle ground allowed, and until there is, we're screwed as a nation.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

And that just happens to be your opinion which seems to be a black or white view and therefore with little balance or objectivity. And there it is in a nutshell where there is no middle ground allowed, and until there is, we're screwed as a nation.

Really, how do you know my view has no objectivity. What have you read of my views on Brexit on here? Prey tell.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Brexit was not deliverable as a success by any political class.

It could have been done better, but was always going to deliver the opposite of what was promised.

What it then did was eviscerate our political class, because it was (and still is) impossible to speak the truth about it. Thus in order to be in politics around the time of Brexit you either had to be a liar or a fool. And that still applies in large degree today, particularly but not only on the right.

So if you voted for Brexit because you didn't want to be part of the EU political system?