Southport attacker pleads guilty to murdering three girls | Sentenced to 52 years in prison

How did a lad grow up in Southport to be so evil
I think his MO he just wanted to kill people. No ideology just want to kill. He liked reading about death, school shootings, terrorism. He is unhinged and he was not stopped by his parents, teachers, friends, police, Prevent, etc. Really scary that kids can grow up to become this and nobody stops him.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
So do you. It doesn’t change the current law though.
Click to expand...
The PM said it was "clearly wrong" that Rudakubana was deemed not to meet the threshold for intervention from the Prevent programme.

Deemed as in those making the decision at the time made a mistake! Couldn't be any clearer really.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
The PM said it was "clearly wrong" that Rudakubana was deemed not to meet the threshold for intervention from the Prevent programme.

Deemed as in those making the decision at the time made a mistake! Couldn't be any clearer really.
Click to expand...
Very true. Currently, it isn’t classed as an act of terrorism, hence he wasn’t charged with it for the murders.

Starmer, and others, want to adapt that so that it can be classed as terrorism in future. What good that does, is anyone’s guess.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Very true. Currently, it isn’t classed as an act of terrorism, hence he wasn’t charged with it for the murders.

Starmer, and others, want to adapt that so that it can be classed as terrorism in future. What good that does, is anyone’s guess.
Click to expand...
That looks to me that he's saying the people assessing at Prevent made a mistake at the time, but I now accept you can read it your way. Regardless he is saying he thinks it's terrorist related isn't he. Which is what many on here and I suspect the vast majority of the wider public also think.

Can I just add , I think Starmer is right to have a public enquiry on this. Things have clearly gone wrong in this case.
 
Last edited:
Churchlawtonblue said:
That looks to me that he's saying the people assessing at Prevent made a mistake at the time, but I now accept you can read it your way. Regardless he is saying he thinks it's terrorist related isn't he. Which is what many on here and I suspect the vast majority of the wider public also think.
Click to expand...
Prevent look at radicalisations into fanatic groups. This guy slipped through the net as he’s just plain evil with a penchant for murder, without any radical ideology.

It’s a pretty rare thing, so I can see how it’s not ticked enough boxes, but also sense that social services, his school etc should really have flagged it up more.

This whole debacle is the need for a lot to be able to say that he was another Islamic radical, set on killing the west.

From what we know, he isn’t that though. He’s a psychopath.
 
meltonblue said:
Because there wasn’t a specific ideology he aligned to and didn’t carry out the attack supporting one.

Seems that’s why prevent didn’t deal with him either which was clearly a failing.
Click to expand...
Do you have to have a specific ideology to be referred to as a terrorist? Didn’t he get done on a terrorist charge? and have a Al-Qaeda training manual. ‘Not a terrorist’, but he’s done everything a terrorist would do.

Unless I’m wrong didn’t our prime minister also refer to terrorism?

It was a massive failing.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
He had terrorist manual, made ricin, was referred to the terrorist prevention organisation ‘prevent’ and he killed three girls at a primary school. How was he not classed as a terrorist earlier?
Click to expand...
Just on the terrorist manual, it is actually a study (in English) by someone in the USAF of an al-Qaeda manual.The full text can still be viewed online in pdf. format.

When I looked into this a couple of months ago I found that a copy of it was advertised online for sale by Waterstones (though it had been out-of-print for some time and was therefore out of stock). Abebooks were also advertising one for sale. It even has an ISBN number.

I assume that Rudakubana was trawling it for methods of carrying out attacks and that it probably does not mean that he subscribes to Salafi-jihadist ideology.

But anyway, I’m going to wait for the public inquiry to find out what actually went on.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
He had terrorist manual, made ricin, was referred to the terrorist prevention organisation ‘prevent’ and he killed three girls at a primary school. How was he not classed as a terrorist earlier?
Click to expand...
Possession of ricin is not a terrorist offence in the law.

He was charged with a terrorist offence for possession of the manual and I guess you could officially call him a terrorist suspect at that point.

Murders per se are not a terrorist offence.

All this is about legal definitions - anyone can call him whatever they like.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
And your take on the PM saying Prevent were wrong in not determining him a terrorist risk before the attack is?
Click to expand...
I didn't say that!

Obviously in hindsight they were wrong, but I don't know anywhere near enough to take any judgment as to whether they should have done different given what they knew at the time.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Do you have to have a specific ideology to be referred to as a terrorist? Didn’t he get done on a terrorist charge? and have a Al-Qaeda training manual. ‘Not a terrorist’, but he’s done everything a terrorist would do.

Unless I’m wrong didn’t our prime minister also refer to terrorism?

It was a massive failing.
Click to expand...

Well, yes. If you carry out an attacking killing a bunch of people, you’re a mass murderer. If you carry out an attacking killing a bunch of people due to political or ideological reasons then you’re a mass murderer and a terrorist.

His home had multiple bits of evidence from across the board, not just Al Qaeda material. In terms of prevent, the referrals before were due to different things too - school shootings, the IRA and Al Qaida separately.

He’s pleaded guilty to two terrorism offences which were related to having that material. The murders weren’t considered terrorism as he didn’t carry them out for a specific ideological reason.

Starmer wants to change the law so that acts like his are considered terrorism. Personally, I disagree but like I said, I get it. The definition has changed already in a lot of people’s minds.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Do you have to have a specific ideology to be referred to as a terrorist? Didn’t he get done on a terrorist charge? and have a Al-Qaeda training manual. ‘Not a terrorist’, but he’s done everything a terrorist would do.

Unless I’m wrong didn’t our prime minister also refer to terrorism?

It was a massive failing.
Click to expand...
You need to look up the legal definition of what constitutes a terrorism offence in law.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
He had terrorist manual, made ricin, was referred to the terrorist prevention organisation ‘prevent’ and he killed three girls at a primary school. How was he not classed as a terrorist earlier?
Click to expand...
See definition in Terrorism Act 2000 s.1 (as amended)
 
Vic said:
It's not terrorism under the law.

There was no use or threat of action designed to influence the government or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, the use or threat being made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause. [Terrorism Act 2000, s.1]
Click to expand...
I really do struggle with why some posters are so reluctant to suggest a terrorist motive. Here is my guess, at the moment the politicians, for what ever reason, though I think we all know why, are reluctant to use the word terrorist. Even Starmer in his speech today said, it is something we need to revisit in the fact this guy was threatening to do mass killings at his old school but because it failed the current terrorism test on 3 occasions, he was dismissed as a danger to the public
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top