Andy Burnham | Manchester Mayor

[Alan Harper's Tash]

So it's not a land swap then?

If course it's good for Gtr Manchester. Nobody has said it isn't a good thing. I welcome any investment in Gtr Manchester.

The issue, which has been discussed throughout the thread is United using tax payers money to buy the Freightliner land.

Perhaps I've missed it? I've not heard it mentioned in all the discussions about the new stadium and public funding. Certainly not by Andy.

United are a PLC. They are listed on the stock market. In the last 3 years United have reported a net loss of £113m in their latest accounts and they have lost more than £300m over the past three years.

Yet United want tax payers money to buy the Freightliner land, remove the rails, etc, and remediate the land, before construction of the new stadium start. The land maybe contaminated?

I've not a hot a clue how much all that would cost. But is a very large parcel of land on prime industrial land/Trafford Park. Let's go go for £50mill-£100mill? I admit I could be way out on thst. So why can't United, Jim, and the Glazers find that money themselves? It's not a huge amount of money considering the stadium is going to cost between £1.5bill-£2bill to build.

The information is all out there. I’ve tried to explain it as succinctly as I could and have failed. I apologise.

I don’t fancy going round the same debating points again, so will leave you to it.

 

[ganganvince]

Welsh government spent upwards of £5 million on enabling works for Ineos to build the Grenadier at Bridgend.

 

[NJMCFC184]

Stick to fucking up the buses you Scouse ****

 

[birchvillablue]

Unless I heard Burnham wrong, he said funding would be for enabling works, which is usually demolition of buildings on that land and remediation.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

So it's not a land swap then?

If course it's good for Gtr Manchester. Nobody has said it isn't a good thing. I welcome any investment in Gtr Manchester.

The issue, which has been discussed throughout the thread is United using tax payers money to buy the Freightliner land.

Perhaps I've missed it? I've not heard it mentioned in all the discussions about the new stadium and public funding. Certainly not by Andy.

United are a PLC. They are listed on the stock market. In the last 3 years United have reported a net loss of £113m in their latest accounts and they have lost more than £300m over the past three years.

Yet United want tax payers money to buy the Freightliner land, remove the rails, etc, and remediate the land, before construction of the new stadium start. The land maybe contaminated?

I've not a hot a clue how much all that would cost. But it's a very large parcel of land on prime industrial land/Trafford Park. Let's go go for £50mill-£100mill? I admit I could be way out on thst. So why can't United, Jim, and the Glazers find that money themselves? It's not a huge amount of money considering the stadium is going to cost between £1.5bill-£2bill to build.

I answered earlier, where is it said they’re using taxpayer money to buy the land? I don’t think the details are known yet. Alternatively it could be good business for the government to buy all the freed up land but then sell part of it to the rags (they don’t need all of it) or they may lease some or all of the land back in an arrangement similar to our stadium.

Whatever happens anyway, this is going to take ages. Once all the costing comes in and some of the relevant parties realise it’s not as good a deal as they first envisaged and start to cool on the idea, the whole plan collapses. I’ve said all along 100k is not a viable stadium in that area. The best return they will get would be to build an 80k quality stadium and avoid all this shenanigans. They’re only talking 100k because they’re trying to bully their way back to being top dog in (Greater) Manchester and have no plan on the pitch.

 

[the blue panther]

The good news must be that, if we finish up with a white elephant of the North replacing Old Toilet, whatever the grant money may be in order to do part of the job, the remainder has to be funded from debt - it must do , as United have hundreds of millions of debt already. More loans incoming; more debt incoming, saddled onto the club.

In the interim, a Labour government will be seen to be helping out the non-dom, and non-tax paying owners - both Scruffy Jim and the Glazers - who'll drink very happily of tax payers contributions to this well thought out scam.

YCMIU. Thank God we're light years ahead of them.

SCUM.

 

[Gordyola]

Greater Manchester's place as 'the global capital of football', the Region's mayor Andy Burnham has said.

Corrected

 

[DTKOAG]

So the rags will be home to a ground funded by the the local council therefore moving into there own council house.
But...

 

[petrusha]

Just to add to the discussion that's emerged on this thread on transport links at our home. It's important to remember that there have always been plans in addition to the East Manchester line on the Metrolink network.

As for the freight line west of the Etihad, when the stadium was built, the plan was to use that line for trains coming from Marple and to build a station next to the stadium on the west side. The public documents explaining the plan aren't online, but there are a couple of Greater Manchester transport maps from the late 1990s and early 2000s showing the then-proposed Metrolink line with a rail interchange at the station that eventually became Etihad Campus. The idea was jettisoned when European-style tram-trains became regarded as a better solution.

Thus, the plan became to convert the Marple to Manchester train line, which goes through Ashburys, to a tram-train operation with Metrolink frequency. That would require new vehicles which could use both the current heavy-rail line between Ashburys and Marple and then run on the streets on the current Metrolink lines from Piccadilly through the city centre. There'd also be a new street section from Ashburys through Beswick and into Piccadilly station, with a new Metrolink stop in Beswick. Ashburys and possibly the Beswick stop would be within walking distance of the stadium.

Tram-trains were trialled between Sheffield and Rotherham from 2017, and the trial was completed in November 2020. It was apparently regarded as a success, and the line used in the trial was given the go-ahead to continue to operate. TfGM publicly embraced tram-train solutions a decade ago as the key to Metrolink expansion and has commented on several occasions that the Marple line will be a top priority when the next round of developments occurs. Thus, we can hopefully expect this new Metrolink line to be built eventually.

However, what I hope may become the game-changer is the development of the Collar Site, which IMO is likely to be announced for 2026 to follow on from completion of the North Stand expansion and associated developments (we'll see, as I concede that my optimism over prospects for this project has been unfulfilled on past occasions). A Metrolink stop at Ashburys would, I hope, not be the sole improvement to accompany the additional facilities on the Campus.

Given that the use of the East Manchester Loop rail line has been proposed in the past, I'd love to see the idea reinstated on the basis that thousands of extra visitors to the Campus per day might transform the business case. I appreciate that there are reasons why it might not happen but, however dismally naysayers might denigrate the idea, I'll keep expressing my hopes until it's officially ruled out or otherwise becomes impossible.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Irrespective of how any land, infrastructure or development deals are structured NOT A PENNY of tax payers funds must benefit the rags directly in indirectly.

This must include land remediation, de contaminating etc & et al.

Rag land is a rat infested, contaminated, tip that's had shit on it since it was built.

NOT A PENNY !!

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Manchester could re-open the train station in Droylsden on the Ashton line if we want to reduce car journeys in East Manchester. Neglecting East Manchester once again
“They just announced this in the house regeneration of Trafford including the stadium”

 

[Gordyola]

In the case of Old Trafford it really is.

‘A place of interest that tourists visit’ is the definition.

Its not a place of interest its a venue to watch football End of

Maybe outside of a match day when people visit for the stadium tour its could be describe as a tourist attraction but only then

 

[flb]

This will be an old trafford upgrade-its got it written all over it, it's always been that trainline running adjacent that's stopped them in the past. Rat boy has said he has no preference whether its a new stadium or a re-developed one. It will be the cheaper option, Burnham has said no public money will go to a new stadium.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

So it's not a land swap then?

If course it's good for Gtr Manchester. Nobody has said it isn't a good thing. I welcome any investment in Gtr Manchester.

The issue, which has been discussed throughout the thread is United using tax payers money to buy the Freightliner land.

Perhaps I've missed it? I've not heard it mentioned in all the discussions about the new stadium and public funding. Certainly not by Andy.

United are a PLC. They are listed on the stock market. In the last 3 years United have reported a net loss of £113m in their latest accounts and they have lost more than £300m over the past three years.

Yet United want tax payers money to buy the Freightliner land, remove the rails, etc, and remediate the land, before construction of the new stadium start. The land maybe contaminated?

I've not a hot a clue how much all that would cost. But it's a very large parcel of land on prime industrial land/Trafford Park. Let's go go for £50mill-£100mill? I admit I could be way out on thst. So why can't United, Jim, and the Glazers find that money themselves? It's not a huge amount of money considering the stadium is going to cost between £1.5bill-£2bill to build.

Correct it’s just been said in Parliament the regeneration of Trafford Park and Stadium, Trafford itself is a rich constituency why should we use taxpayers money to pay for it ? normally it wouldn’t bother me except I’ve heard the discussion on radio more than once it should be a government responsibility to rebuild the stadium Old Trafford as a special case.
A “national trust”. :)

 

[Norman kneejerk]

Just to add to the discussion that's emerged on this thread on transport links at our home. It's important to remember that there have always been plans in addition to the East Manchester line on the Metrolink network.

As for the freight line west of the Etihad, when the stadium was built, the plan was to use that line for trains coming from Marple and to build a station next to the stadium on the west side. The public documents explaining the plan aren't online, but there are a couple of Greater Manchester transport maps from the late 1990s and early 2000s showing the then-proposed Metrolink line with a rail interchange at the station that eventually became Etihad Campus. The idea was jettisoned when European-style tram-trains became regarded as a better solution.

Thus, the plan became to convert the Marple to Manchester train line, which goes through Ashburys, to a tram-train operation with Metrolink frequency. That would require new vehicles which could use both the current heavy-rail line between Ashburys and Marple and then run on the streets on the current Metrolink lines from Piccadilly through the city centre. There'd also be a new street section from Ashburys through Beswick and into Piccadilly station, with a new Metrolink stop in Beswick. Ashburys and possibly the Beswick stop would be within walking distance of the stadium.

Tram-trains were trialled between Sheffield and Rotherham from 2017, and the trial was completed in November 2020. It was apparently regarded as a success, and the line used in the trial was given the go-ahead to continue to operate. TfGM publicly embraced tram-train solutions a decade ago as the key to Metrolink expansion and has commented on several occasions that the Marple line will be a top priority when the next round of developments occurs. Thus, we can hopefully expect this new Metrolink line to be built eventually.

However, what I hope may become the game-changer is the development of the Collar Site, which IMO is likely to be announced for 2026 to follow on from completion of the North Stand expansion and associated developments (we'll see, as I concede that my optimism over prospects for this project has been unfulfilled on past occasions). A Metrolink stop at Ashburys would, I hope, not be the sole improvement to accompany the additional facilities on the Campus.

Given that the use of the East Manchester Loop rail line has been proposed in the past, I'd love to see the idea reinstated on the basis that thousands of extra visitors to the Campus per day might transform the business case. I appreciate that there are reasons why it might not happen but, however dismally naysayers might denigrate the idea, I'll keep expressing my hopes until it's officially ruled out or otherwise becomes impossible.

This is very interesting thanks. I didn't know the goods line had been in earlier discussions.
As a layman on planning it does seem to open up loads of possibilities with the link to the ground from Ashburys you mentioned and also the goods line seems to head off towards Victoria so could take people off the Puccadilly route.
Just a few thoughts.

 

[Citi-leaks]

I don’t think you’ll find anyone on here that doesn’t think that Ratcliffe isn’t a tax dodging ****.

He’s also a clever **** though that’s found a way to get funding to lessen a fraction of the cost of their redevelopment as they can reroute all freight trains away from Manchester City centre, meaning far less passenger trains are delayed across the whole of the north. (In theory at least)

That’s unequivocally a good thing.

Had it been Sale Sharks doing this, there wouldn’t be a 55 page thread on it.

The relocation of the freight terminal has been happening in the background for 5 years. The proposed new terminal in St Helen's was purchased in 2022.

3 years before Scruffy Jim, Seb Coe and Andy Burnham made any statements about it at all.

It's like one of them where you steal someone else's idea, then shoe-horn it into every conversation.

 

[Oldtraffordblue1]

Just to add to the discussion that's emerged on this thread on transport links at our home. It's important to remember that there have always been plans in addition to the East Manchester line on the Metrolink network.

As for the freight line west of the Etihad, when the stadium was built, the plan was to use that line for trains coming from Marple and to build a station next to the stadium on the west side. The public documents explaining the plan aren't online, but there are a couple of Greater Manchester transport maps from the late 1990s and early 2000s showing the then-proposed Metrolink line with a rail interchange at the station that eventually became Etihad Campus. The idea was jettisoned when European-style tram-trains became regarded as a better solution.

Thus, the plan became to convert the Marple to Manchester train line, which goes through Ashburys, to a tram-train operation with Metrolink frequency. That would require new vehicles which could use both the current heavy-rail line between Ashburys and Marple and then run on the streets on the current Metrolink lines from Piccadilly through the city centre. There'd also be a new street section from Ashburys through Beswick and into Piccadilly station, with a new Metrolink stop in Beswick. Ashburys and possibly the Beswick stop would be within walking distance of the stadium.

Tram-trains were trialled between Sheffield and Rotherham from 2017, and the trial was completed in November 2020. It was apparently regarded as a success, and the line used in the trial was given the go-ahead to continue to operate. TfGM publicly embraced tram-train solutions a decade ago as the key to Metrolink expansion and has commented on several occasions that the Marple line will be a top priority when the next round of developments occurs. Thus, we can hopefully expect this new Metrolink line to be built eventually.

However, what I hope may become the game-changer is the development of the Collar Site, which IMO is likely to be announced for 2026 to follow on from completion of the North Stand expansion and associated developments (we'll see, as I concede that my optimism over prospects for this project has been unfulfilled on past occasions). A Metrolink stop at Ashburys would, I hope, not be the sole improvement to accompany the additional facilities on the Campus.

Given that the use of the East Manchester Loop rail line has been proposed in the past, I'd love to see the idea reinstated on the basis that thousands of extra visitors to the Campus per day might transform the business case. I appreciate that there are reasons why it might not happen but, however dismally naysayers might denigrate the idea, I'll keep expressing my hopes until it's officially ruled out or otherwise becomes impossible.

Hopefully City will now accelerate their plans for the collar site to cheery pick the types of "things" we want to stop Utd from having them, we have probably a three to five year head start. Image if no Coop Live they might have wanted to do one there. Still love to know what's going to create 90k/45k/20k jobs???

 

[Citi-leaks]

Its not a place of interest its a venue to watch football End of

Maybe outside of a match day when people visit for the stadium tour its could be describe as a tourist attraction but only then

Nonsense, my Tram goes through there and it is busy 7 days a week. Not just for tourists visiting their museum, non football fans go to the imperial war museum and media city. Then you have Granada studios, the Lowry venue and art gallery, and the cinema, shopping mall, restaurants and bars.

Loads of people live in Salford Quays now. It is bustling all year round, and it's getting bigger and sprawling out towards Weaste.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I know that all we talk about at work, plus the main subject of discussion in any pub you go into around Manchester, is the number of freight trains in the city centre,

 

[Vic]

Just to add to the discussion that's emerged on this thread on transport links at our home. It's important to remember that there have always been plans in addition to the East Manchester line on the Metrolink network.

As for the freight line west of the Etihad, when the stadium was built, the plan was to use that line for trains coming from Marple and to build a station next to the stadium on the west side. The public documents explaining the plan aren't online, but there are a couple of Greater Manchester transport maps from the late 1990s and early 2000s showing the then-proposed Metrolink line with a rail interchange at the station that eventually became Etihad Campus. The idea was jettisoned when European-style tram-trains became regarded as a better solution.

Thus, the plan became to convert the Marple to Manchester train line, which goes through Ashburys, to a tram-train operation with Metrolink frequency. That would require new vehicles which could use both the current heavy-rail line between Ashburys and Marple and then run on the streets on the current Metrolink lines from Piccadilly through the city centre. There'd also be a new street section from Ashburys through Beswick and into Piccadilly station, with a new Metrolink stop in Beswick. Ashburys and possibly the Beswick stop would be within walking distance of the stadium.

Tram-trains were trialled between Sheffield and Rotherham from 2017, and the trial was completed in November 2020. It was apparently regarded as a success, and the line used in the trial was given the go-ahead to continue to operate. TfGM publicly embraced tram-train solutions a decade ago as the key to Metrolink expansion and has commented on several occasions that the Marple line will be a top priority when the next round of developments occurs. Thus, we can hopefully expect this new Metrolink line to be built eventually.

However, what I hope may become the game-changer is the development of the Collar Site, which IMO is likely to be announced for 2026 to follow on from completion of the North Stand expansion and associated developments (we'll see, as I concede that my optimism over prospects for this project has been unfulfilled on past occasions). A Metrolink stop at Ashburys would, I hope, not be the sole improvement to accompany the additional facilities on the Campus.

Given that the use of the East Manchester Loop rail line has been proposed in the past, I'd love to see the idea reinstated on the basis that thousands of extra visitors to the Campus per day might transform the business case. I appreciate that there are reasons why it might not happen but, however dismally naysayers might denigrate the idea, I'll keep expressing my hopes until it's officially ruled out or otherwise becomes impossible.

Nay, nay and thrice nay.

Well, just questions really.

If I'm commuting in from Marple, the train takes 4 minutes from Ashburys to Piccadilly (station). How long will it take to get onto new tram tracks (segregated or mixed with road traffic?) and then through the Metrolink station? Balance that against presumably a better (presumably 12 minute) frequency with trams.

But a Beswick tram station near the ground? After a match, would you walk a mile to Ashton Old Road to queue for a tram or a mile and a half direct to Piccadilly station?

If there's a map which shows what would need to be demolished and where this line would go, I might be less unhopeful.

The thread should split really between the title and the ones discussing the awful public transport offer at the Etihad. (Simplest solution there would be to remodel the siding between the Campus stop and Velopark so trams can reverse in the siding rather than at Velopark, provide extra trams for events, and stop road traffic blocking the tram tracks at Holt Town.)