President Trump

mancity2012_eamo said:
Which is why I kept my reply brief.
The way I see it in here, everyone knows full well where this is looking likely to go.
Some are happy with it and some aren’t.
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But can you see how brief or unclear answers can be misconstrued as hedging?

I always want people to state clearly where they think its going. That way we can compare what they believed to what the eventual outcomes are.

But the general tendency is for folks to say "this is going to be terrible" "this is clearly a grift" etc.

But im expecting more specifics. I get it that no one can predict the future specifically. But what should we expect at the snd of 4 years?


A President who has failed to attempt or deliver the issues he campaigned on? A President that tricked the country only to stuff his pockets and apparently those of his friends.? The establishment of a Dictatorship? A Kleptocratic Monarchy? A lazy **** who golfs all day?

What exactly are you expecting. Because it is east to retrofit ones pre-existing beliefs into whatever the outcomes are.

So its always good to know what people think before hand. While this doesn't specifically apply to you, there are way too many after-the-fact prognostications going on here these days.
 
Dax777 said:
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Well thank you.

I don't think the world is as you put it "appalled by , incredulous at or frightened by the US.

Im sure some people are though.
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On the subject of incredulity and circling back to your comment about the decline of the West, I know you said you didn't vote for Trump as any sort of saviour which is fair enough but I assume you also didn't expect him to rapidly accelerate that decline? It would appear that the Russians are almost incredulous and absolutely gleeful about the impact Trump is having in Europe and the 'dismantling of the west' and they are absolutely pissing themselves laughing at the US. This is not some random bloke, Popov is a member of the Duma and is at the heart of the Russian political establishment. I suppose you could argue this is some sort of propaganda for internal consumption and to get western allies even more at each other's throats but I'd suggest that is straw clutching at best.

 
threespires said:
On the subject of incredulity and circling back to your comment about the decline of the West, I know you said you didn't vote for Trump as any sort of saviour which is fair enough but I assume you also didn't expect him to rapidly accelerate that decline? It would appear that the Russians are almost incredulous and absolutely gleeful about the impact Trump is having in Europe and the 'dismantling of the west' and they are absolutely pissing themselves laughing at the US. This is not some random bloke, Popov is a member of the Duma and is at the heart of the Russian political establishment. I suppose you could argue this is some sort of propaganda for internal consumption and to get western allies even more at each other's throats but I'd suggest that is straw clutching at best.

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A country that sends its soldiers to war on donkeys is in no position to be gleeful about anything.
 
Dax777 said:
I always want people to state clearly where they think its going. That way we can compare what they believed to what the eventual outcomes are.

But im expecting more specifics. I get it that no one can predict the future specifically. But what should we expect at the snd of 4 years?
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Thats a great idea, lets play a game, you and me, we'll take turns picking one of the things he's done and each predict where that issue will be in 4 years (assuming we haven't been consumed by a mushroom cloud by then). I'll even let you go first
 
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flook said:
Thats a great idea, lets play a game, you and me, we'll take turns picking one of the things he's done and each predict where that issue will be in 4 years (assuming we haven't been consumed by a mushroom cloud by then). I'll even let you go first
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I am not the one with an issue with Trump, you are. So what positions do you have an issue with? And what outcomes do you see?
 
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threespires said:
On the subject of incredulity and circling back to your comment about the decline of the West, I know you said you didn't vote for Trump as any sort of saviour which is fair enough but I assume you also didn't expect him to rapidly accelerate that decline? It would appear that the Russians are almost incredulous and absolutely gleeful about the impact Trump is having in Europe and the 'dismantling of the west' and they are absolutely pissing themselves laughing at the US. This is not some random bloke, Popov is a member of the Duma and is at the heart of the Russian political establishment. I suppose you could argue this is some sort of propaganda for internal consumption and to get western allies even more at each other's throats but I'd suggest that is straw clutching at best.

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My bold function is not working anymore. Bummer :(. Makes it harder to point to what im responding to.

That said, I don't agree with your framing that Trump is accelerating the decline. Nor do i think the evidence you provided proves that. There are just too many leaps of faith in the reasoning

The first you've already pointed out, i.e. that this might be Russian propaganda.

Second, even if it wasn't propaganda, and in fact the Russian politco types believed what they were saying, their beliefs still wouldn't necessarily make the claim true. To exemplify, would you believe it was true that Trump was strengthening Western alliances with his actions if some American official said so on some American program? Obviously not. So why give any more credence to such a claim by Russian Officials on a Russian show?

Finally, even if it wasn't propaganda, and the beliefs of the Russians were correct that Trump actions is tearing up Europe and the West before the Russians themselves could, this itself may not still be indisputable evidence of an acceleration in Western decline absent an actual acceleration in that decline. It very well could be the spark that spawns a Western revival.


The only thing that is clearly indicated in that video is Russian INTENT. It is their intention to help facilitate the destruction of the West.

Those who have ears should listen!
 
Dax777 said:
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I am not the one with an issue with Trump, you are. So what positions do you have an issue with? And what outcomes do you see?
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I see, you want people to state clearly where they think this is going, but when asked to do the same, you immediately deflect.

OK lets go with todays hot topic, Ukraine, where do you see the ceasefire discussions going? Which parts of Ukraine (as of 2012) do you see still being part of Ukraine in, lets say 12 months time? Do you think Ukraine will be in NATO by the end of Shitgibbons current term?

As I've posed the specific question, will you follow your own requirement and state clearly what you think will happen over these specific points?
 
flook said:
fucks sake its not even subtle is it

Obviously it's to reduce the impact of the state department fleet carbon emissions on climate change.....oh wait, climate change is a myth isn't it

cue the Trumpists telling us its a great deal
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Basically helping his mate Elmo shift unwanted vehicle stock.

It is genuinely criminal.
 
Your latest reminder that like it or not, Trump's America is an enemy, not an ally of the free world.






(One reason to be proud to be British is that we hold Radovan Karadzic in a Parkhurst on behalf of the ICC for the Srebrenica massacre and other crimes. Trump would probably offer him Bosnian lands for "peace")
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
A country that sends its soldiers to war on donkeys is in no position to be gleeful about anything.
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No argument from me on that. I was really just responding to Dax's comment on how Trumps actions are being perceived round the world. With the current trajectory it seems reasonable to suggest that the fracturing of the western alliance isn't just wishful thinking on Russia's part and as a bare minimum Europe needs to be taking America's threats of isolationism seriously. We're possibly in a trickier place than the rest of our European alliies too. You could argue the 'special relationship' has always been illusory, we got more Marshall money but then spent it propping up elements of empire; now this might have been due to our own sense of exceptionalism but also had the effort of avoiding leaving geopolitical vacuums that America's enemies would more often than not have filled. I've never got round to reading about whether that was really our choice or America's.
 
Just watching Hegseth live on TV at a presser -

"NATO countries MUST get their defence spending up to 5% GDP asap"

German correspondent - "when you say NATO countries and 5% does that include the USA who spend 3.4% of GDP on defence"

PH - "No, no, we already spend loads so we are not obligated to go to 5%"
 
flook said:
I see, you want people to state clearly where they think this is going, but when asked to do the same, you immediately deflect.

OK lets go with todays hot topic, Ukraine, where do you see the ceasefire discussions going? Which parts of Ukraine (as of 2012) do you see still being part of Ukraine in, lets say 12 months time? Do you think Ukraine will be in NATO by the end of Shitgibbons current term?

As I've posed the specific question, will you follow your own requirement and state clearly what you think will happen over these specific points?
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Not at all. i am not the one making predictions about Trump and his actions.

You seems to think because I am not in agreement with you, this must mean I have the same burden as you do.

For example, let say you accused me of stealing your lunch. I respond with no i didn't and what proof do you have to suggest such.. And you respond with, " Ok, I'll prove you did, but also have to prove you didn't." That would be silly.

I did not make any accusations, why should I be required to give proof of accusations I didn't make?

ITs a silly equalizing of our burdens. I hope you can see that.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Just watching Hegseth live on TV at a presser -

"NATO countries MUST get their defence spending up to 5% GDP asap"

German correspondent - "when you say NATO countries and 5% does that include the USA who spend 3.4% of GDP on defence"

PH - "No, no, we already spend loads so we are not obligated to go to 5%"
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Every time they get picked apart they need to go for the jugular, a fucking weekend news anchor and weekend warrior in charge of USA defence, we should get Trevor McDonald out of retirement to do the NATO defence!
 
Dax777 said:
Not at all. i am not the one making predictions about Trump and his actions.

You seems to think because I am not in agreement with you, this must mean I have the same burden as you do.

For example, let say you accused me of stealing your lunch. I respond with no i didn't and what proof do you have to suggest such.. And you respond with, " Ok, I'll prove you did, but also have to prove you didn't." That would be silly.

I did not make any accusations, why should I be required to give proof of accusations I didn't make?

ITs a silly equalizing of our burdens. I hope you can see that.
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Superb avoidance and non answering of a direct question.
 
Dax777 said:
Not at all. i am not the one making predictions about Trump and his actions.

You seems to think because I am not in agreement with you, this must mean I have the same burden as you do.

For example, let say you accused me of stealing your lunch. I respond with no i didn't and what proof do you have to suggest such.. And you respond with, " Ok, I'll prove you did, but also have to prove you didn't." That would be silly.

I did not make any accusations, why should I be required to give proof of accusations I didn't make?

ITs a silly equalizing of our burdens. I hope you can see that.
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Thats fine, you don't want to do what you're asking others to do, it's ok, really. I don't understand why you can't just say that though
 
bluethrunthru said:
Just watching Hegseth live on TV at a presser -

"NATO countries MUST get their defence spending up to 5% GDP asap"

German correspondent - "when you say NATO countries and 5% does that include the USA who spend 3.4% of GDP on defence"

PH - "No, no, we already spend loads so we are not obligated to go to 5%"
Click to expand...
He's correct about NATO needing to increase its spending, but it's not for the reasons he's stating. 'Murica can no longer be relied upon, it's clear and obvious. Should article 5 be invoked, I'm absolutely convinced the mango shitgibbon and his merry band of sycophants will collectively shit themselves and renege on their responsibility.

Any and all respect I've ever had for America has gone. I thought we'd burned our bridges with the Brexit fiasco, but compared to what this crowd of clowns are doing, that now looks like a kiddies spat at a tea party
 
Dax777 said:
Not at all. i am not the one making predictions about Trump and his actions.

You seems to think because I am not in agreement with you, this must mean I have the same burden as you do.

For example, let say you accused me of stealing your lunch. I respond with no i didn't and what proof do you have to suggest such.. And you respond with, " Ok, I'll prove you did, but also have to prove you didn't." That would be silly.

I did not make any accusations, why should I be required to give proof of accusations I didn't make?

ITs a silly equalizing of our burdens. I hope you can see that.
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Absolute chickenshit. Ball-less wonder. A plebe lackey.
 
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