Russian invasion of Ukraine

[gordondaviesmoustache]

We can pretend all day long they no longer matter mate but that isn’t the case unfortunately.

Now who’s twisting words? I never said they didn’t matter. It said their power and reach wasn’t comparable with China and the US.

Do you think it is?

 

[blueinsa]

Your comment is indeed very clear.

You don't think the opinions of Ukrainians as to their future matters, and you don't think it matters whether Russia is rewarded for its aggression.

Yep, I said all of that…

Desperate **** you are. It’s like talking to fucking toddlers in here at times.

 

[blueinsa]

Now who’s twisting words? I never said they didn’t matter. It said their power and reach wasn’t comparable with China and the US.

Do you think it is?

Probably more so given they’re on our doorstep and we have very recent history (Cold War) of what they are capable of and that’s before we think about their nuclear threat and the dependency the west still has for its gas. Lots of talk has been done by politicians about moving away from that but the reality is they’ve done fuck all of note.

This isn’t 1945. He won’t be forced into surrender and humiliating defeat. A political out will be constructed (happening now) and slowly but surely the world will engage with him and Russia again because we are a selfish fucking species that cares about one thing, money and none more so than our politicians.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Europes leaders will be equally desperate for things to go back to how they where and that’s exactly what will happen here btw, sanctions will be lifted, trade will start again and Russian gas will flow.

It's not clear to me at all that this will happen. For starters, Ukraine will never agree to the so-called peace treaty that Trump and Russia have come up with on their own without Ukrainian and European input.

That said, without US aid, Ukraine is likely going to lose the war. And at least so far, Trump is siding with Russia. It'll be up to Europe to keep Ukraine's war effort alive - and that too is very uncertain.

Who knows how the war will eventually pan out?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Probably more so given they’re on our doorstep and we have very recent history (Cold War) of what they are capable of and that’s before we think about their nuclear threat and the dependency the west still has for its gas. Lots of talk has been done by politicians about moving away from that but the reality is they’ve done fuck all of note.

This isn’t 1945. He won’t be forced into surrender and humiliating defeat. A political out will be constructed (happening now) and slowly but surely the world will engage with him and Russia again because we are a selfish fucking species that cares about one thing, money and none more so than our politicians.

I’m not so sure the path back for Russia will be as seamless as you suggest.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Absolutely zero chance the US gives up its strategic bases across Europe.

Trump wouldn't be opposed to this. And several influential people in his immediate orbit would argue for such, although others would argue against. 50-50 for me that the USA withdraws from NATO and pulls all troops from Europe and then fires most of them... because, you know, DOGE.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Putin is on his arse, Trump is fully aware of that but he also recognises a fellow “ego” and it was always going to end with Putin being given an exit strategy that allows him in some way to save face.

Ukraine can’t win and Russia can’t win. It’s a bloodbath of WW1 vintage with men thrown into a meat grinder by both sides for literally a few kms of land.

The financial impact that this war has had on us all is enormous and whilst they might talk tough and not admit it, Europes leaders will be equally desperate for things to go back to how they where and that’s exactly what will happen here btw, sanctions will be lifted, trade will start again and Russian gas will flow.

All the world can do is sit and wait for Putin and co to depart the world stage and cross fingers the next wallopers in charge are a bit more normal.

If Ukraine keeps blitzing Ruzzian Oil Refineries, Infrastucture and Industry - The Ruzzian economy may just fall apart - and sooner than many people think.

 

[blueinsa]

I’m not so sure the path back for Russia will be as seamless as you suggest.

I hope not.

I offer my thoughts on what will transpire over the next few days and weeks.

It shouldn’t be mistaken for it’s my wish. Putin can choke on his weetabix in the morning for me and the orange man can be found with rubber hose up his arse and a satsuma blocking his throat for all I care.

Reality says both those things are not happening. What is happening is a political out is being constructed for the **** by his mate and Ukraine will be blackmailed into signing up to it at a cost to them the land they’ve lost already and cozy words that the road to the EU and NATO is off the table for now but in the future, eh, you never know.

What’s worse is within an hour of it happening the gas pipes will be open full fucking whack!

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Russian assault involving up to 30 armoured vehicles,repelled by 110th Mechanized Brigade at Velyka Novoselka,Donetsk Region.

Slava Ukraini.

 

[fulabeer]

Ukraine can’t win and Russia can’t win. It’s a bloodbath of WW1 vintage with men thrown into a meat grinder by both sides for literally a few kms of land.

You do understand that one side was invaded and is "defending" its land?
So no, it's not over a few kms of land. It is fighting for its very existence.

The day the USA understands that, then "maybe" then the USA can be welcomed back into the civilised world.

 

[blueinsa]

You do understand that one side was invaded and is "defending" its land?
So no, it's not over a few kms of land. It is fighting for its very existence.

The day the USA understands that, then "maybe" then the USA can be welcomed back into the civilised world.

I had no idea.

Thanks for the education and we will see what transpires over the following weeks.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I’m not so sure the path back for Russia will be as seamless as you suggest.

Germany are discussing buying gas from Russia again as part of the peace plan.
Sounds like another stab in the back for Ukraine myself.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

You do understand that one side was invaded and is "defending" its land?
So no, it not over a few kms of land. It is fighting for its very existence.

The day the USA understands that, then "maybe" they can be welcomed back into the civilised world.

At present the USA is almost equally divided into two factions: radical far right (MAGA) and centrist. For the foreseeable future, the USA is either going to be far right for decades (should Trump succeed in his quest for power) or, at best, sometimes far right or centrist depending on election results.

Democracies can no longer trust the USA.

 

[Scottyboi]

At present the USA is almost equally divided into two factions: radical far right (MAGA) and centrist. For the foreseeable future, the USA is either going to be far right for decades (should Trump succeed in his quest for power) or, at best, sometimes far right or centrist depending on election results.

As a reliable partner on the world stage - you cannot trust the USA.

Will eat itself soon enough.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Will eat itself soon enough.

It's likely going to be a train wreck in the states - who knows where this will eventually lead.

Most worrying is that several within Trump's orbit are floating the idea that the courts don't have the authority to block Trump's actions. There's a real chance that we're headed towards a constitutional crisis within the next year or so.

 

[cleavers]

It's not clear to me at all that this will happen. For starters, Ukraine will never agree to the so-called peace treaty that Trump and Russia have come up with on their own without Ukrainian and European input.

They haven't "come up with" anything yet.

That said, without US aid, Ukraine is likely going to lose the war.

How are they going to "lose", they've developed their own weapons, that the rest of the world don't have (well documented in this thread), and may well sell them to the rest of us, been quite clever Ukraine for me.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

They haven't "come up with" anything yet.


How are they going to "lose", they've developed their own weapons, that the rest of the world don't have (well documented in this thread), and may well sell them to the rest of us, been quite clever Ukraine for me.

Trump and Putin have already "come up with" broad outlines of a so-called peace plan - Ukraine can't ever join NATO and must give up much (all?) of the land that Russia now occupies.

As for not understanding how Ukraine might well lose the war should the US withdraw all support - well, perhaps you have more insight into the war than I - but from what I've read - US support is critical for the survival of Ukraine. Why do you think that Ukraine stands a chance against Russia without US support - unless Europe fills the void (a tenuous proposition)?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

They won’t.

It’s becoming a bit silly now.

The orange shit gibbon is not forever and things will be back to how they where before you know it.

Before or after the civil war?

 

[cleavers]

Trump and Putin have already "come up with" broad outlines of a so-called peace plan - Ukraine can't ever join NATO and must give up much of (all?) the land that Russia now occupies.

I think that's bollocks to be honest, Europe won't allow it, you on the other side of "the pond" are as brainwashed as the russian populace, the outcome of this hasn't even started yet, and won't without Ukrain and Europe, no matter what trump or putin think.

 

[cleavers]

Why do you think that Ukraine stands a chance against Russia without US support - unless Europe fills the void?

Because quite frankly, though much has been "promised" most of it has never been delivered, and 3 years in they haven't lost, just ground, some they gave up themselves.