Russian invasion of Ukraine

ultimateharold said:


And there it is, from the ****'s mouth himself. Betrayal of a continent from his fucking holiday home.
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I'm guessing elections haven't been Ukraine's number one priority these last three years. I wonder if he'll push for elections in Gaza too. After all, they've got buildings lying on their sides too, plenty of them, mainly care of US munitions.

"That's something coming from me and many other countries also," he says.

Those "many other countrues" amount to one: Russia.

To deliberately go out to further destabilise a country that has been fighting for its existence for three years is beyond sick. There's a special place in hell reserved for him and Putin.

Dylan's Masters Of War applies to these two, particularly the last verse:

'And I hope that you die
And your death will come soon
I'll follow your casket
On a pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead."
 
west didsblue said:
Not only bonkers but bollocks.

In real terms social security spending has barely changed in the last 14 years and the largest proportion goes to pensioners anyway. Sounds like whoever you heard on the radio was trying to get people frothing about scroungers.

However it is scandalous that the Tories spent their whole time in government running down the capability of our armed forces whilst making out they were the party of strong defence, leaving us hugely exposed and far too dependent on the US.
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How much has it changed then. Has it gone up?
 
west didsblue said:
Not only bonkers but bollocks.

In real terms social security spending has barely changed in the last 14 years and the largest proportion goes to pensioners anyway. Sounds like whoever you heard on the radio was trying to get people frothing about scroungers.

However it is scandalous that the Tories spent their whole time in government running down the capability of our armed forces whilst making out they were the party of strong defence, leaving us hugely exposed and far too dependent on the US.
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No one is arsed about your real-terms spending. Your average hard working Brit sees the benefits bill spiralling out of control and consecutive governments unable to get a grip on it.

3.9m disability benefit claimants in 2002 and now it is up to 6.9m in 2024. That’s not barely a change as you say, that’s a lot of people taking the piss.
 
west didsblue said:
Not only bonkers but bollocks.

In real terms social security spending has barely changed in the last 14 years and the largest proportion goes to pensioners anyway. Sounds like whoever you heard on the radio was trying to get people frothing about scroungers.

However it is scandalous that the Tories spent their whole time in government running down the capability of our armed forces whilst making out they were the party of strong defence, leaving us hugely exposed and far too dependent on the US.
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£4 billion worth of Ninrod aircraft chopped up that never flew, they’d be useful now keeping tabs on what the Russians get up to in the North Sea. Aircraft carriers built which saw f35s land on them a 6 years into their service.
 
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uwerosler28 said:
Do you have a 7 year old son happily making his way through life while the world around him falls apart?, my heart despairs for his future.
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Our army is short of numbers but we definitely won't be conscripting 7 year olds, even if Jim Ratcliffe is elected as our next PM.
 
The Northern Baptist said:
No one is arsed about your real-terms spending. Your average hard working Brit sees the benefits bill spiralling out of control and consecutive governments unable to get a grip on it.

3.9m disability benefit claimants in 2002 and now it is up to 6.9m in 2024. That’s not barely a change as you say, that’s a lot of people taking the piss.
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How many are fake claims tho? Long covid hit 1.9m in 2023. That’s a big chunk of that figure if it’s held out. 1.3m of those had it more than a year at that point.
 
The Northern Baptist said:
No one is arsed about your real-terms spending. Your average hard working Brit sees the benefits bill spiralling out of control and consecutive governments unable to get a grip on it.

3.9m disability benefit claimants in 2002 and now it is up to 6.9m in 2024. That’s not barely a change as you say, that’s a lot of people taking the piss.
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Thanks for confirming you were frothing about benefits.
As I said the biggest recipients by far are pensioners followed by in work benefits for those hard working Brits you seem to be so concerned about.
Presumably it’s just the disabled and those unable to work who you want benefits removed from which is only a small proportion of the £350bn spend.
 
uwerosler28 said:
If we end up like 1916 and they start conscripting they arent taking my son to the front line of Ukraine because Zeleknski cant let go of his stubbornness and see the writing is on the wall , he isnt getting Russia out of the land they have taken despite how morally corrupt it will be when they take it permanently
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How much land does Zelensky give up to prove to you he is not stubborn ?

The land they currently occupy or the rest of ukraine they will forcefully occupy once putin has got his forces firmly established.
 
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The Northern Baptist said:
No one is arsed about your real-terms spending. Your average hard working Brit sees the benefits bill spiralling out of control and consecutive governments unable to get a grip on it.

3.9m disability benefit claimants in 2002 and now it is up to 6.9m in 2024. That’s not barely a change as you say, that’s a lot of people taking the piss.
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Add in the covid furlough cheats
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
£4 billion worth of Ninrod aircraft chopped up that never flew, they’d be useful now keeping tabs on what the Russians get up to in the North Sea. Aircraft carriers built which saw f35s land on them a 6 years into their service.
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Slight correction. 5 of them flew a total of over 600 hours which made scrapping them even more ridiculous. As someone who worked on the programme I know for a fact that the widely described problems with the aircraft were all well understood and would have been resolved within months, and were no more serious than problems experienced by any new aircraft type getting cleared for going into service. It was a purely political decision with the aircraft snags used as an excuse.
 
west didsblue said:
Defence spending has barely changed in 14 years. With the increased threats around the world mostly due to Putin that is scandalous.
Comparing it to social security spending is idiotic though and designed to get people frothing about scroungers.
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I meant social security spending, I thought your original post was implying that the figure was incorrect?
 
cleavers said:
What about russian gas/oil, do you want that be being pumped across the european borders again ? Do you want it in your car, your heating system ? I hope it never happens, and the west (trump aside) continue to head to a greener way of living. That oil/gas is what funded the original invasion (mind you putin getting that infrastructure working again will be a huge task in itself, could take years or even decades).
.
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Hate to say, but as someone that works in the shipping industry- Russian oil and gas is still very much being supplied across all of Europe, indirectly.
 
Can we take the british politics to a suitable thread please ?

Covid spending, and benefit spending has no place in this one, just about OK with defence spending I guess, but it should be related to Ukraine, not nimrods, f35's, and aircraft carriers that nothing to do with this conflict.

As for monitoring what putin is doing in the North Sea, we've bought/developed better things than nimrod, and monitor it 24/7 (even if nimrod was a waste of money).
 
ultimateharold said:


And there it is, from the ****'s mouth himself. Betrayal of a continent from his fucking holiday home.
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Extremely dumb given the obvious response is Ukraine will hold elections once Russian troops have withdrawn from all the occupied territories and thus allow all Ukrainians to exercise their democratic rights. If Russia doesn’t withdraw and/or allow the occupied territories the opportunity to vote then any election would be meaningless.

All this takes everyone nowhere, although it does give the Europeans and everyone else unequivocal clarity on the US position - Trump and the US likes sucking Russian dick.

Europe has to figure out its collective position and where it goes from here.
 
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